Pattie Grimm: Value of Authentic Leadership, and Jail in Foreign Countries

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Pattie Grimm. Thanks for jumping on learning from others. How are you doing this morning? I’m doing fantastic. How about you? Go ahead. So you’re you’re drinking green tea. Have you always been a tea drinker? You know, what about three or four years ago? I switched up coffee was just starting to bother me.

And I was one of these people. I’m such a high energy person. Anyway, if I had more than one cup of coffee, I was like, you know, speaking in Greek, I was talking so fast. So I gave it up and switched to green tea a number of years ago. And anytime I have a cup of coffee now, even it smells so good. I just don’t feel good afterwards.

I, I think I’m, I think I’m heading into that phase. I do coffee in the morning, but it’s just throwing me off lately. It’s like you said, it’s so good. All right. It was so wonderful. And I lived in Seattle for 20 plus years, so, you know, the home of Starbucks and all this stuff Gamble’s best. And I was a big coffee drinker when I was up there.

Oh yeah. I just, how that was Starbucks cup for those that can’t see. Um, yeah. Petty. All right. So you got, you got 25 years experience. We’re gonna talk about a lot different things, but not until I ask you the usual two questions. Question number one is what’s your area of expertise and what are we going to learn about today?

My area of expertise is helping organizations build great leaders, build rock star teams and fast track their business results by making sure they spend an equal amount of time thinking about the people, part of the business as I do about the marketing and the numbers and the products and things they’re going to build, because that’s where you’re going to really get your jump in revenue is if you have really great culture and really great people, I like it.

Let’s dive in more after a question. Number two is what are you not so good at Pattie? Wow. That’s such an interesting, what, what are you good at, but what are you not so good at? I’m one of these people that I’m a big picture person, right? Visionary, big picture. And I suck at details. I mean, I literally have to have an assistant or someone read contracts and find details because I can read it 10 times and not see it.

And I do a lot of presentations and workshops. Of course, nowadays, virtually. And I will tell people at the start of the presentation, because I’m not that detailed person I can preread and prove my slides a hundred times. And I will guarantee you, there will be one typo in there that I didn’t see, even though I’ve looked at it a million times and now I get somebody else to prove them for me just to avoid that.

But I’ll use the word two T O instead of two. Yeah. Two spell checks. Just fine. Yeah. Yeah. The grammar is what’ll get you. Is it, um, is it that you’re not, is it, do you think you’re that way because you’re not into the details or because you’re moving so fast that you just overlook them. I think it’s a bit of both.

If you’ve, if you’ve ever taken any one of the personal style instruments, whether it be disc or StrengthsFinder or insights, there’s a million of ’em out there. You’ll find out what your strengths are, which one of the things I tell leaders is focus on your strengths and play to your strengths and then hire people around you who have strengths that you don’t have.

Um, and so I think it’s a combination of, I truly, truly don’t see them and I’m just also moving so fast. Um, I had a teammate one time and pushed them that worked for me say when you’re changing your mind, can you like change signals, like make a right turn signal. So shifting directions, that’s funny. Well, let’s talk about, you know, I actually am a big fan of the whole people culture kind of thing.

So why don’t we just start there? Um, why do you think that. The businesses overlook their people as an asset. Um, you know, I want to say more than they should. Yeah. Uh, and they all sometimes overlook the customer as well. But if we start with the people and here’s the four P’s, I want to pass on to leaders that say that how you treat your people is how they’re going to perform with the customers and each other, which is going to affect their productivity, which is going to affect your profitability.

And I think too many leaders think it’s soft skills. That is something that makes the hair on the back of my neck. Stand on. And when I hear somebody describe coaching, motivating, hiring, promoting, investing in your people as being a soft scale. There’s nothing soft about being a leader. There’s nothing soft about having to coach someone when they did something wrong.

And then sometimes it’s even hard for leaders to coach people when they do something well, and thank them and give it to have show gratitude for what they did. I think they think it’s just as soft and I don’t want to offend people, but the soft, airy fairy. You know, psycho mumble crap. Excuse me. Yeah.

It’s, you know, he had a, I had a guest that, um, is a good friend of mine as well. Joseph Hanson. He talked about how he, when he started to get into the leadership role and he’s now gone on to build and sell, I think five businesses in 10 years. And so when he was kind of. Learning to be a leader in business.

Number one, he taught, he shared a story about how one time he had, he was reading a book and it was talking about leadership skills and how you confront, um, kinda like you said, it’s not hard or it’s not easy to, you know, deal with problems or dealing with when employees do things good. And he had employee that showed up late and it was because he was like a friend.

And so his friend kind of thought he could get away with it. And he called him out. And he, he said it was uncomfortable for him as the leader to have to have that discussion. But later about a week later, has his friend thanked them and said, you know, that was super awkward. And I hated it at first, but I needed it, you know?

And I think that is, um, a skill you have to develop to, to approach those things effectively. Um, but respectfully. It takes great courage to have the guts, to say to somebody that you’re going in the wrong direction. And if you don’t, you’re doing yourself, your company, and that person, a disservice, because if they’re going down the wrong path and they don’t know what they’re going to keep going down that path.

It’s your job. As the leader, as the coach, as the owner of the company, to have a vision and set of values, you get people to work through and work towards a common foundation. And when people are going off track, it’s your job to actually coach them back in to alignment with those things. Or in some cases you may have to simply coach them out.

Definitely simply say you’re a great person, Damien, you’ve got a lot of skills. It just isn’t working at this organization and we need to part ways. Yeah. You know, well, when we first started chatting, you said something interesting about how, um, you know, leaders and bosses managers, whatever business owners, how a lot of times they’ll overlook customers and employees and I, and you kind of separated revenue versus customer employees, but then you also said proper attention to.

Customers employees can drive revenue. So what are these business owners and managers, what are they doing wrong and how, how are they not properly leveraging those as assets to do the opposite of what they think can actually add to revenue? And this is so important right now, given where we are in the middle of the COVID or whatever you want to call it.

I heard somebody call it the P you know, they didn’t call it the pandemic. They called it the demic. You know, now it’s flying word for pandemic is now demic. We can’t even say the for word. Yeah. But we’re now working. We’re now working in multi-generational workforce, where we have three, four, even some cases, five generations of people working side by side and what we’re used to work for people hiring somebody, giving a job, giving a paycheck, patting them on the back once in a while was good enough.

That doesn’t work with baby that doesn’t work with the gen X-ers that doesn’t work with the next generation, the gen Z years who want a place and purpose and work. They want to know where they fit in. It’s absolutely key to success that you create a culture, an organization where people can thrive and grow and bring their best to work every day.

I mean, think about it. If you’re able to perform in your peak performance zone and you’re doing what you’re doing well, and you’re getting recognized for that. Not just money, you’re getting actual recognition for it. You’re going to perform better. You’re going to work harder. Maybe there’s a long line of customers and it’s time for your lunch break.

And you may think twice about closing your register or walking away from that customer situation. If you’re really engaged, because you’re going to care enough about that customer and the company that you’re going to maybe delay your break or your lunch by 10 or 15 minutes. It’s so critical that leaders really understand.

And I see this happening with a lot of entrepreneurs. They grew up in a corporate world. Now they start their own company. And they lived black, the people, part of it, they start thinking about the finances and the numbers, and the people are more important than your numbers. Cause without your people, you don’t have customers, you don’t have numbers.

Your product may be great, but are people really buying it? And are your people motivated to help promote your company? How, how much, uh, personal relationships with the team and employees and staff, how much, uh, cause I I’m reading one of your stories over here about when you worked at a bank and I want to kind of transition into that story because I think in the story.

There’s a lot of, uh, vulnerability and, you know, reality associated with that story. I’ll have you tell in a moment, so how much, uh, how, how much does, what you help businesses improve on with relationships? How, how much of that involves. Authenticity and vulnerability and just being a human and, you know, is that part of the equation.

That’s a big part of the equation. And you’re seeing a really big trend in leadership and leadership research around the need for authentic leadership. And there’s actually a research study that may go against what a lot of people think. So there’s a research study that shows that leaders who appear to be too perfect.

Are not believed as being credible, the most important number. One thing you need to be as a leader is be credible and have integrity and honesty, and people believe in you, but the people who appear to be too perfect are seen as lacking that credibility they’re seen as lacking that authenticity and people become suspect.

But they’re not real and they’re not human where you’re seeing the new trend go to authentic leadership. A lot of the work by Dr. Bernay Brown or a lot of these people that are out there is about being that authentic leader, being true to yourself. And so some of the work I do, it’s actually a really fun team building workshop.

We, you know, typically in normal times we’re doing face-to-face with people, which is a blast, but lately I’ve been doing a lot of these things virtual. We do a team building session around finding your strengths. To get you to peak performance. And so when I asked people to pick one of at one, one to four animals, are you more like an Eagle, an owl, a dove, or a peacock?

When you think about your emo and how you think and how you make decisions, or you’re like an Eagle that’s direct and fast, and to the point kind of hovers above the world and then goes down and strikes something to come back. Are you more like a peacock that’s kind of creative and showing and Flamboyan and creative or innovative?

Are you more like the owl, which is wise and smart and organized in details, or you’re more like the dove, which is caring and giving and great team players and collaborators and great coaches. The fact is we all have one of those four things as a dominant style and your best team is going to be the team when you’ve got Eagles, owls and doves equally as best as possible, because that leads to innovation, creativity, and you have the ability to leverage everyone’s strengths.

So that’s a really fun, impactful thing to do is help people figure out what their strengths are. And we do it in a really fun way and we make help make, we make fun of each other in a way say, well, those, those animals, they get into analysis paralysis. And those, you know, those dubs are too caring and they, they sing the song feelings, the old song, like we are the world and the peacocks are too crazy, too flamboyant, and they’re too flighty.

Right? And then the Eagles are a bull in a China shop, a tank that doesn’t have a reverse gear that just goes forward and runs over people. And so it’s a lot of fun, but it’s also super impactful because then people learn to communicate and speak that other person’s language. Are you familiar with the.

Online marketer, Ty Lopez. I am not, but I’d be interested. Listeners will be familiar with him. He blew up on YouTube ads a couple of years ago, and it was just this random guy that out of nowhere was just on every flipping video you’d watch. And then he transitioned over to Facebook. And so he’s, he’s, he’s one of the most recognizable online marketers nowadays.

But when he first started, everyone was like, who the hell is this guy? But the reason why, the reason why I bring them up is as you’re talking about the relate-ability is I’ve sent, now that he’s got a couple of years underneath his belt and people are talking about his success. One of the things you pointed out was one of the main reasons people say it was successful is because he’s just a random guy.

He’s he’s looks normal. He stutters and stalls on his ads and he interrupts himself like, Oh, sorry. I was, I just. Tripped over my Chinese food or whatever, you know? And so it’s just, he’s just a normal guy, but in front of a Lamborghini and people are looking for that genuineness. I mean, it’s in this COVID time, your credibility is important, your courage is important, but so is your compassion being able to say to your employees, this has been hard on me too, in my family, you know, and being able to be that empathetic person versus saying, we know we just storm through this and leaders need to be very careful of the words they use, because everything you say gets magnified.

And I’ll give you a very specific example. I hear a lot of leaders say when we get back to air quotes work. So when I, as a leader, say to my employees, when we get back to work. What they’re hearing is, what do you think I’ve been doing the last six months you jerk? I’ve been working harder than ever. I’m homeschooling my children.

I’m sharing my office with my significant other, my entire family. I live in, I live in Palm Springs, California, but think about those people who live in New York city in a one bedroom, 400 square foot apartment with no balcony and an elevator they’ve been trapped for six months. So we can say things like when we get back to the workplace, Yeah.

And what many people are finding. And I worked for Microsoft for 15 years. Many people are finding Microsoft did a study on it that they’re more productive working remotely, either part-time or full-time. So you’re going to see a lot of real estate office buildings going on the chopping block. Like my son works for a law firm.

They closed half of their offices and people are working from home. They have drop in offices that people go to if they need to be in the office, but they’re not there. Yeah. Yeah, no, I’ve noticed, I’ve noticed that a lot as well. You know, my, my team and I’ve been fortunate, um, we’ve pretty much always worked remotely and we’ve been doing that where most of our clients, we don’t meet face to face and we deal with remotely.

But when we do, we just go run out, uh, an office space for the day. Um, yeah, you go to, uh, you’ve seen the executive suites offices know, pop up all over. Yeah. Yeah. So you talked about Microsoft and you have a funny Microsoft story too, but I want to get back to this story that I mentioned about the bank.

And so to kind of come full circle, um, I’d like Pattie to tell this story, because I think there’s a lot of. Human elements to the story. So you’re at a bank. You’ve got this long meeting. What happens? Well, I was one of the first and youngest vice presidents of big California bank at the time. And I was promoted to vice president.

So I’m in one of these big meetings on the 64th floor in downtown Los Angeles. With all these suits. All these men in gray and blue and black suits all dressed exactly the same. They have one had a blue tie. One had a, you know, they had on the power ties the whole nine yards, super traditional banking environment.

And we’ve been in the meeting for, I don’t know, two or three hours. And I, of course, I’m dressed. Like I am now I’m dressed in something bright and colorful. And I was kind of always seen as being a bit different, which I take pride in by the way. Um, and I got up. To go to the bathroom. I go to get up to start to walk out the door.

And one of the suits older gentleman says to me that you think you’re going. And I said to him, well, I’m going to the restroom. He says, well, we don’t do that in these meetings because it breaks up our brainstorming, our creative thinking. And so I looked at this guy who I’m sure was several levels above me, been in vice president for a long time.

I looked at him and said, well, you have two choices. I can go to the bathroom and be back in two minutes, or I can pee on your carpet in this conference room, your choice, which do you want. And he kind of looked at me and like, you know, and I just walked out the door and went to the bathroom. And as soon as I did five other guys walked out and said, thank you.

We needed to go the bathroom too. Well, I have this, I had this exact same thing happening and like two weeks ago, um, with my kids’ soccer coach. So it was with my nine-year-old he’s freaking nine years old. And, and this was obviously we’re still in COVID and this was like the first time a lot of these coaches or these kids have got out of the house and hung out with other kids and done anything.

And so, um, This coach. He was an awesome coach, very, very, very constructive from a strategic standpoint, but he just wasn’t empathetic to the kids. And I, I had him come to the site and I said, you need to chill out. Uh, you know, this is the first time these kids are getting out and this and that. And, um, he had told me.

He had said something to my kid. I later found out that, um, cause my, my kid inherited my small bladder. And so he’s gone to the bathroom a hundred times a day. Yeah, me too. And so he goes, you’re freaking kids over here having to go the bathroom through, you know, how many times during practice. And so it’s funny you say that about the bank.

Cause I told all my kids the same thing I said next time your coach says that, just tell him you want me to piss right here. And I said, Go for it. And so the couch chilled out after he got called out by me and my kid. Yeah. You sometimes you just have to stand up and do something, you know? And when you’re in the most tense meetings, you do need something to break up the tension into.

But I love that story about your kid, because I have a small bladder, my, my son and heir to the small bladder. So, and I drink a ton of water and tea, so constantly going to bath the bathroom. But I think what’s, what’s so interesting to me right now. And you mentioned the word empathetic leaders are empathy, right?

Um, if you look at the people in the world that are handling the COVID crisis, the best countries are led by women. One of them is the woman who heads up New Zealand, Germany, uh, several other countries where they’ve had the lowest amount of COVID deaths and the lowest amount of COVID cases. And she was criticized recently for being too empathetic.

And so you said it being empathetic makes me a better leader than I don’t care. I’m going to continue to care for my people as much as I care for the country and the business, because it’s the right thing to do. And this is a woman that whose, who survived a major earthquake that brought down almost a capital to its knees, a major assault shooting, where she immediately banned assault rifles.

And she’s handling the COVID crisis with some of the lowest cases in the world. Now I’ve been to New Zealand because I worked in Microsoft and I traveled internationally. And I lived in Asia for three years and ran the Asia Pacific region for their customer partner experience team. And there’s equal number of people and sheep in New Zealand.

So it is a smaller country, but in comparison, they have this. The smallest amount of cases and that’s, and it is the authentic, genuine, empathetic leader, balanced with your business, strategic thinking. Yeah. It’s not an either or it’s got to be a, both. Yeah. And I think that’s, what’s interesting that that’s actually part of, what’s frustrating for me in everything that’s going on in the world right now is that, um, everything’s everybody takes to like a black or white left or right position.

And, you know, in the business world, I can appreciate that. I like to make decisions and, and go, but when it comes to society, it’s. There’s no right answer. Right. And so we need that empathy to figure out, okay, what’s best for the greater good. How can you know, we can’t solve this perfectly, but what, how can we solve this as best as realistically possible?

And it’s frustrating to see everybody saying I’m right, you’re wrong. The end. Yeah. And I encourage leaders to really think about when you’re making those strategic business decisions to involve other people. If we go back to that style team-building thing I talked about, you want to make sure that you’re bringing in people from diverse background experiences, diverse ways of thinking, uh, color, gender, race background, because you want to make the best decision you can.

And when you get to that point of making that strategic decision, ask yourself three questions. What is best for the customer, what’s best for the employees and what’s best for the business and try and come up with decisions that at least hit on two of those three things. Sometimes as business leaders, we have to make the tough decision.

Like many businesses were first to, for low, for low or. Or fire or get rid of a lot of their employees during this time. And for some businesses, it was the right thing to do because the person could then go get unemployment and then hire them back your best people back when you get back into the workplace.

Yeah. You followed your own advice there with your choice of words. Hey, um, can you say what bank you worked out? The reason why I ask is because I worked at a big bank in California for a while. And if you can’t, that’s fine. I started out my career out of college. At bank of America, where I went from being a part-time teller to being the VP of customer and people excellence.

And then I worked at first interstate bank, you know, it’s it’s yeah. So I, I worked for, um, Zions bank Corp, which bought California bank and trust bank and trust. Well, yeah, and I had a long meeting. I mean, at the time I was. 2122 and I was with a bunch of suits as well. I didn’t necessarily have the bathroom problem.

I had the not falling asleep problem. Okay.

It was brutal. Like I know we were just talking about data all day. And what’s funny is, is you have this other story, you mentioned Microsoft and you mentioned traveling and you have the story about. Jail. We have these parallel stories, which, which is funny. So I’m going to let you tell your, your fear of jail story and then I’ll share mine.

Well, you know, I try if my 25 years, 30 years of business I’ve traveled 20 of those 30 years. I mean, at one point I was living in Seattle, traveling to orange County every week for five years. I mean, literally every single Monday or Sunday and coming home on Thursdays and Fridays. But when I worked for Microsoft, I was always in an international role.

And so one of my trips was we were rolling out a new program that the sales teams and we needed to physically go out and do these in their locations. And so I flew from Seattle to Fort Lauderdale, and then we did a circuit from Fort Lauderdale to Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, and then back to Fort Lauderdale in a week.

So literally we presented all day flew all night. We get to Columbia. Which I had never been to before. And I luckily had a couple of people, people with me who spoke Spanish, um, one of them was my co presenter that was going to be presenting the content with me. And we’re going through the airport to get into Columbia, not out to get into the country.

And I always carry PowerBars with me because I get, I haven’t have hypoglycemia and some other things, and I need to have something that I couldn’t just have something healthy to eat, not a cookie or. Piece of bread or something relatively healthy. And so I had a bunch of power balls pack. PowerBars packed in my suitcase and we’re going through customs and they’re checking my bag.

And all of a sudden, I see all these little guards over in the corner, opening my bag at taking these things out and looking at them and holding them up and doing all this kind of stuff. And I’m hearing this man speaking and screaming and yelling. Bomb explosive bomb. That’s the only one I could get with bomb out of all of this thinking that these power bars were some sort of an explosive, and I have visions of being in a Colombian jail, right?

I’ve traveled the world. You know, people think business travel is so glorious. Well, it’s not because you see the airport, the car, the hotel, back at the hotel, eat dinner once in a while, some local feel sorry for you, invite you home for dinner. It takes you out to dinner, but I have these visions of being in a Colombian jail.

I luckily my counterpart Nicholas came up and started speaking Spanish too and straightened it out. Um, but it was crazy. It was just his vision of being, I had the same thing happen in Indonesia at one point where I thought I was going to go to jail too. And it’s like, I ended up in Indonesia. I ended up giving the guy.

200 bought their local currency, uh, and was able to get out of the West. I probably would’ve kept me there too. So business rebel, isn’t that fun? Yeah, I, yeah, so my, my story, uh, I was in Cancun, Mexico for my honeymoon. So this was 14 years ago and, uh, we met these, this other couple at the pool. Uh, they were there for their anniversary and we.

Went into me and the gentlemen went into town to grab some drinks and come back. And my friend, this is funny cause I was just joking about this stuff and the other day, so my friend, you know, my new friend, I’ve only known him for a day. He’s really animated. And I, and I can’t tell if he’s. If that’s the way he is or he’s drunk.

Yeah. So I asked him, I was like, if you’ve been drinking, cause we’re about to get in the car. He’s like, no, no, no, I’m good. And I’m like, okay, whatever. And so we go into town, get whatever, and we coming back and he’s just flying. I mean, I don’t know. He’s probably gone 50, 60, and like a 20 mile an hours on something like that.

And we come over this hillside. And so you can’t see down the Valley. And then as you, as you kind of come over to the top of the Hill, there’s police parked at the bottom. And so he just goes flying past him and I can, as we fly past it and I can see the hotel across the street. And like, we’re almost there.

I’m just thinking close. And next thing I know, I see the lights come on behind us. He pulls us over and the officer comes up, comes to the driver’s side and goes up to my friend, leans in. And before he can even say anything, the first thing he says is. So in your, with like a disappointed face as he’s like smelling the air as if he can smell alcohol on his breath.

And I’m like, Holy crap, I’m going to go to jail in Mexico on my honeymoon. And so to see my new wife again, I know it was the same thing. So the, I kept, um, then my friend, like you talking about paying the guy, my friend says how much. And I’m like, what are you doing? You’re trying to drive a cop. And he just is like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

How much? And the cop said, no, you follow us back to the jail and I’m going, what is going on? This? Guy’s pulling us over for him drinking, but he wants him to drive the vehicle to the jail. And so finally the police officer starts going. 80 80. And so then, then my friend goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he opens up his wallet and he starts giving him $20 bills and he gets 20, 40, 60, 80.

And he’s up to like 120, 140. And the guy wasn’t even saying like 80 bucks, he was saying like, 80 pesos or something. So he was above and beyond what the guy was asking. And so then I, so I, I tell the, I look at the officer and I go, are we good? And he goes, yeah, you drive, you drive. And I’m like, yep. Done.

I’m outta here. I’m only going to crawl to that hotel. Yeah. Yeah. So I can, I can totally relate to your fear of being in jail in another country. Oh man. Um, Pattie. Yeah, what’s up. You going to say something? Well, I was going to say something, you know, the one thing I want leaders to really think about regardless of the size of your company is that in this time, um, it’s time to be authentic and genuine leaders to really recognize your people.

But I want leaders to know four things they should do to really help. Restart their businesses in some ways. And therefore ours, like reading, writing of earth, music of their, for ours. Number one, I want you to think about how you need to reinvent your customer experiences based on what we’ve learned and how you’ve had to pivot your business.

What do you need to do differently to delight? And keep your customers loyal and happy with you. So what changes do you need to make to your business? How do you re-imagine that customer experience in different and new ways? We never thought we’d be able to survive and we actually have not well for some of us, but we’ve actually survived and done.

Some people done particularly well. I want you to think about reshaping your leadership, invest in your people, leaders and offer them training or workshops and webinars to help them become authentic peer genuine leaders who are great coaches. And they help achieve outstanding results. Here’s my definition of great leaders that someone who helps achieve and sustain outstanding results by bringing out the best in themselves and by actively engaging and bringing out the best in their people.

That’s the formula for success. The next one is to think about reinventing some of your business processes. We found out many of the things we were doing in the past don’t work for us today. So how do you reinvent a business process? Say for example, you have an order billing process. How could you streamline that and automate that in new and different ways and use technology to help you do that?

Obviously, my technology background always comes out. And then how do you, re-engage your workforce? How do you bring them back? And passionate ways that they can deliver their best and help you and your company thrive. I like it. Uh, good advice. I’m uh, I’m on the same side. I, I, uh, you know, often when I’m on the other side of Mike, talk about the value of, of having a supportive team.

So I appreciate everything you bring to the conversation today. Uh, Pattie, thanks for jumping on learning from others. I’ll give you the floor for the last moment to tell our listeners how they can find out more about you. They can find out more about me. They can go to my website, which is advantage-training.com or if they want more information or they’re interested in doing a team building workshop or a webinar for your leaders, we can do a very engaging series of short webinars one a week for an hour to help your leaders become those great coaches so that they can bring out the best in their teams.

And the easiest way to do that is just email me. I’m a pretty simple person. It’s Pattie grim@live.com. And so it’s P a T T I E G R I M m@live.com. And the one thing I want to leave leaders with is I want you to be able to create and write your own personal leadership vision. And if you email me. At Pattie grim live.com, P a T T I E G R I M M.

I will send you a guide to help you create a personal leadership vision for you and the kind of leader that you want to be. So your company fries. Awesome. I appreciate you throwing that out there and thanks for sharing your stories. Pattie grim, everybody. Thanks so much. Thank you so much.