Jules White is a professional sales coach whose business allows her to do what she loves, helping entrepreneurs and businesses to succeed at sales and to fall in love with selling. She has over 30 years’ experience of business and sales, including winning investment from Peter Jones on Dragons’ Den, making her a real dragon slayer. She is a TEDx speaker and hosts the podcast ‘The Human Conversation’ on iTunes.
Podcast Episode Transcripts:
Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.
Thanks for joining us on learningfromothers.com today. Jules White, and other guests from the UK really excited to talk with her. Jules White is a professional sales coach whose business allows her to do what she loves, and that is helping entrepreneurs and businesses to succeed at sales and fall in love with selling.
And what’s cool is she has over 30 years experience of business and sales, including winning investments from. Peter Johnson Dragon’s den, uh, which is a, and Jules can correct me if I’m wrong here. In a moment Dragon’s den is kinda the equivalent of shark tank in the UK, which as she says, makes her real dragon Slayer.
And she has a TEDx speaker, which is super cool. And she hosts the podcast, the human conversation on iTunes. Welcome. Jules hello? Lovely to be here. So did I get that right? Dragon’s Dan is kind of, um, uh, I guess I should ask if you’re familiar with shark tank in the U S and they’re kind of the same thing, right?
Yeah. And it’s interesting. Cause I’ve literally just come back from a trip to Boston, which was my first time in the U S and when I put the television on, in my hotel room, it was shark tank. It was so funny because I thought, yeah, this is it. This is the American version, so, yeah. Yeah. So you just, just got exposed to shark tank, then that’s funny.
Yeah. I think I’m so I’ve had a client that was on shark tank and so I’ve kind of dug into the background of it. And I think a dragon Stan was, was first and shark tank was a spinoff of Dragon’s den. So, alright, well, you know, why don’t you give our listeners, you have a wealth of, I’m excited to talk to you about a couple of things.
You’ve written a book. Um, you’ve been a TEDx speaker before we get into all those exciting experiences you have. Why don’t you give our listeners in your own words? Uh, tell them what you do and how you help businesses and entrepreneurs. Okay. Yeah. So I always say that I help people to fall in love with sales and I use that.
It’s really important that I use it that way, because I think there’s a huge amount of fear around sales, especially for entrepreneurs. So entrepreneurs tend to be. Incredibly bright, clever people, very, um, sort of great in their own specific area usually, but sometimes that’s just not sales and they’d never sold it.
So there’s a huge fear and there’s kind of myths, I think, around sales. So I tend to help them get through the myths. We myth bust. We look up mindset before we, you can start to sell. And then we look at planning, planning, bang sales. So actually what’s that really about. So I think it’s like the why, you know, why do you do what you do?
Why do your ideal client wants what you provide? So it’s all of that. I like to dig into the emotional human connection side of sales. So that’s kind of where I come from. And that’s what I love doing. I think that you nailed a word that I really enjoy lately and talking about sales is human and you and I had connected on LinkedIn.
And that’s a place where I always say that same thing is one of the best things you can do at sales is, is almost in a way don’t sell and just be human. Yeah, absolutely. And I, this thing now, when I talk and I say, I want to untrain everyone who’s ever been trained how to sell. Um, and you know, you’re laughing cause you know exactly what I mean.
I feel that when we train people to sell, we almost take the human out of them, you know, and we make them robotic and scripted and process driven. But actually sales is about relationships. Um, and I, I would also say life skills or sales skills. Yeah, I have a love, hate relationship with when I see agencies that have had a lot of success with our sales department, because it’s admirable as a business to see them grow.
But sometimes it’s a little cringe-worthy to see that robotic side of the cells and lose that relationship with the clients, which is a big part of my business that I enjoy. Yeah, absolutely. I think as well, when you say about them being successful in that robotic way, and of course they can, but the question then is the bigger picture.
How long does that last? So are we building longterm relationships or are we just getting quick win sales that might actually not come back again or may even speak badly over us? You know, so there’s a risk element, I think, to not being human. When you sell. Yeah. And I’m sure it varies by industry and business model.
Where’s where some businesses they have, they know that it’s a onetime transaction. And so they go for volume. Um, you know, conversely, um, other industries are very relationship driven and they have longterm clients the last few years. And so it’s important to have that relationship. So what type of clients do you typically work with?
Are they. Um, entrepreneurs that are just starting. Are they, you know, bigger companies that need, like you said, to be retrained. It’s interesting because I started off very much about that entrepreneurial market and I still work with entrepreneurs and I’ll work with them from start, as you say, but I also pick up the entrepreneurs are a little bit.
Stagnant, you know, the ones who’ve been doing it a couple of three years, not sure how to get to that next step so I can work with them too. That’s really interesting work, but I’ve also started to do more and more corporate work, which I’m actually surprised about because I thought with my methodology being very human and relationship based and not all about the targets and the numbers and the figures, I wasn’t sure if would be interested in me, but that they actually genuinely are.
So that’s, that’s amazing. I’m, I’m really thrilled. Do you, do you see the most success when you come in, do you help these businesses and entrepreneurs come up with a strategy to, to, to get the lead generation and then how to manage a relationship from there? Or do you try to work with them within their existing processes?
I think, um, it’s hard to suddenly come in and say, you’re doing everything wrong. You need to change everything. That’s, that’s quite tough. Isn’t it? You know, on you psychologically. So I tend to look at what they’re already doing and I try and just take the really good bits, but also I dig a bit deeper into those bets.
Some of the clients I’ve just, I’ve been working with corporate clients, they’ve got their processes in place. They’re actually successful to a point. But what I’m doing now is I’m saying that. Let’s look at that human connection side. Let’s really look at the buyer. And actually, why is the buyer buying?
It’s not just about price. It’s not just about what the company is telling them to do. They’re human. They’re going to be to a level on emotion. Most definitely, you know, I, I’m absolutely a hundred percent on that and it’s been interesting digging into that. Cause a lot of them have said, well, we’ve never looked at this stuff before.
Cool. We haven’t gone in this state. We haven’t gone into that emotional side of sales and they I’m really enjoying it actually. They’re, they’re seeing a new way of communicating and connecting, which is great. It reminds me of a quote that I’ve heard. And I can’t remember who said it, but it was along the lines of people like to buy, but they don’t like to be sold.
Yeah. And that’s really interesting because that emphasizes, what you’re saying is people want to buy from you. You just need to do it in a non salesy way. Yeah. Well you do. Because the other thing, I think, especially today, because when I started selling I’m I’m old school, we had no computers. There was no internet.
You may have heard this story before. I’m sure from some of the more veteran sales coaches and trainers we had. Or knowledge. Nobody could be searched things back. They’re not like they can today. So we’re in a completely different environment now. So we have to respect our buyers much, much more. I think today than we used to before.
I mean, maybe I didn’t disrespect them, but the methodologies were. We’re the salespeople. We have the knowledge, we have the power. Um, it’s not like that now. It’s just not, they’re far further down that buying process than they ever work. Cause they’ve got the knowledge, right? Yeah. It makes a lot of sense.
And it seems like, uh, you know, in, in today’s world of social media, which is kind of what you’re touching on, it sounds like is that. People and customers have a voice in the platform and they have the ability to research. And so you have to play within that ecosystem to, uh, you know, be human, know that you’re vulnerable.
And, and a lot of times actually a vulnerability can, can be a sales strategy where you connect with people. And if you go down the influencer route or you post videos on social media, And you expose that you are human, then that is actually, uh, attractive because we’re so oversaturated in today’s digital world that people want authenticity.
Yeah, they do. And of course that’s coming under fire as well. I don’t need, if you, that you’ve noticed now, especially on LinkedIn, you know, there’s these kind of haters now coming in saying, yeah, I’ve used the word authentic and it’s, it’s no longer authentic anymore. Um, and it, and this will always happen.
I think with the words that are fashionable and the words that are the bottom line is authenticity is uniqueness and we are all unique. There is no other Damon and there is no other jewels in this world and there’s where we need to play to our strengths and just be true us because that is where we will connect.
I think at the greatest level I truly do. Right. Yeah. Well, why don’t we talk a little bit, so your business’s limit limits sell it, and I believe that’s also the title of your book. Why don’t you break those three phrases down for us? Yeah. Okay. So I guess really what I brought it back back to was this sales road trip, which is actually quite American, but I wanted it to feel like a journey, because as much as they’re, again, haters of this word journey, I believe that’s what we do.
We take our customers and our buyers on a journey. So, and we also chapel that as a seller. So live is all about where we start. This is kind of like, Oh, you fit to travel. On the road trip. This is mindset stuff. Now there’s a huge amount. As I mentioned earlier, a fear around selling and it’s all everything we do to ourselves.
We just do this to ourselves. No, one’s doing it to us. It’s all us. Right? So like break down mindset in a big way in the book, in my own coaching. Um, and in the book, this thing there’s exercises to work through as well. So then we really start looking at. What really is our fear of sales, where does it really come from?
Um, because if we nail it, we’re then ready to move on and actually start looking at selling properly. So then the next part of the journey is the love it, which is planning the route. So, this is where I mentioned the wise, why do you do what you do? Why do you run a business? What’s in it for you, but not just, I want to be rich.
You know, Simon Sinek, you may, you may know him. I love this guy. I only discovered him last year. Some of the stuff he talks about is absolutely on point. You know, we need to understand our purpose and our belief. Cause that’s where we truly connect. If I have the same core values. As you were going to kind of connect without realizing, because we believe the same things.
So I believe that’s really important in sales and then the ideal client work. So, you know, you’ve probably heard of the avatars personas, right? That’s kind of the jargon words around ideal client, important. Who are they? Marital status demographic. Where do they hang out? But actually deepen. How they’re feeling emotionally.
That’s again, where I like to really connect what’s the hell. And what’s their heaven going to be once they’ve worked with you and then their, why, why do they want to buy from you? Because it’s all about the customer and then sell it is about traveling the journey. That’s now we’re on the route now we’re on the way.
So we’re getting visible, looking at visibility, consistency message authenticity. And then things like in the book, I look at things like proposals, how to put that together. So that it’s, it’s really right for the customer, not just us. And then things like, um, helping get, helping get visible gets there.
Basically. That’s it sell it? I, it makes total sense. I want to go back to the first part where you talked about fear, where it, and you said, you know, this is something we do to ourselves. Uh, do you think that is because, uh, of that old school, traditional stereotype of sales being a slimy process, or where do you think that fear most often comes from?
I think Ben, the clients I’ve had in the research, I did the fears around and no one’s gonna want what I’ve got to buy. No, one’s going to pay the price. I want to charge no, one’s going to like what I have. Um, and other people are gonna do what I do. These are kind of like those core things that come out.
And when you break those down, you start thinking like, who’s said that to you, has anyone actually physically said to you? I don’t like you you’re too expensive. Everyone else’s doing what you do. I bet you 90%, 99% of the time. No, one’s actually said it to you. So actually we’ve said it to ourselves. So that fear comes from childhood.
Sometimes, you know, maybe how we were brought up as a child child, or the sleazy sales experience that you just mentioned there. You know, sometimes we have been terribly so too, and that is, I just don’t want to be that person until I want to go out and be that person. So there’s lots of reasons why we have fear, but I think the key thing that I talk about in the book is.
That we do that to ourselves. So there’s a way to overcome it. So I look at some slightly sort of tactical ways of overcoming fear in a simple way. So it’s, it’s almost like it typically comes down to just an insecurity. That’s interesting. I think so. I think, you know, a lot of fear comes from that place when you strip it back.
It’s very simple. Isn’t it? When you, when you strip it back. Yeah. And I’m on this podcast, we’ve talked to live coaches and people in different professions, and it’s, it’s interesting how there’s a common denominator that whether it’s. You know, career success or personal success, um, or, you know, sales processes, it’s almost this super tiny thing in the back of your mind, that’s just evolved.
And you don’t even realize that there’s a connection between the evolved final insecurity and this little tiny thing that the tiny seed that was planted whenever it was planted. It’s interesting. Very interesting. Amazing. I think. How long do you typically work with an entrepreneur or business or, or kind of give us an example of what the process is and where you start and at what point you kinda, um, say it’ll leave them to their own strengths and to carry it from there.
I mean, corporate. She usually have probably quite a big core objective when they want to work with me. So there’s usually a specific that, that she goal that they actually want to get to with entrepreneurs. You sometimes have that they have a goal, but other times it might just be that they just feel completely lost.
So we as coaches and you’ll probably have heard this from other coaches tend to have sort of set programs. Where you may have say six weeks or 10 weeks. Now, what I tend to do is I’ll do 10 weeks with an entrepreneur as a program, but it’s always based around what they want to achieve its goals. So if they don’t know, I’ll set the goals with them.
So that we can really look at where they want to go with those sessions, because I don’t want to just be doing sessions for the sake of it diamond. I want it to work with them in a very bespoke way, but usually what happens is that say two thirds of the way through the sessions, the last sessions you find, you’re just actually doing accountability with them.
So you’re, you’re learning and teaching with them, those first sessions and just giving them those there’s sort of a tips and things like the book really, I worked like the book does, but that last lot of sessions will be accountability, which they love and they need, and then they’re ready and then they kind of fly that’s the entrepreneurial route, usually with me.
So how did you get to where you’re at in your career to be able to offer this as a service? What’s your background? Okay. So I’m 18 years old was when I went into sales. Um, and you can do some maths here cause I’ve been in SAS with fetch two years. Okay. I’m very young.
But within that period of time, I fit in so many different sales roles. So I’ve done B to C. So business to consumer, I’ve done business to business. I’ve also done many different sectors, stainless steel. We have yellow pages, which actually is now done. We don’t print the yellow pages anymore in the UK, but I know you had it.
I think in the U S. Yes, they make great doorstops yeah. Yeah. Well, they stopped printing our doorstops. So I sold yellow pages adverts, which was a great place to cut your teeth in sales, I’ve sold recruitment, I’ve sold incentives, hospitality, digital marketing exhibition stands. I mean, it goes on and with truly madly baby, which was my Dragon’s den business, that was party plan selling baby products.
So that was retail. So, so I guess the journey has been that having had so many different sections TIS that I’ve worked in and I’ve done a sales director and a head of sales role. So I’ve seen that upper level of sales as well. And the management of sales, I’ve got this amazing brand rounded VA perspective and learning of sales, which, which I’m really proud of.
And. Last year year before last 2017, I got made redundant from a position I was working in and that was fine. And they gave me three months money and I said, this is it. I’m doing it. I’m going to do my own thing. So I decided coaching and then I niche it down into sales. Cause that was kind of what I’d always done and what I love.
Yeah, that’s a great story of when you made your jump. I have a, I have a similar story, but it’s nice when you have that opportunity and you’re in a point in your career or your life. Where, uh, things are in your favor, I guess you’d say to, to take the risk at that time, you have a little things to support you.
So that’s great. So why don’t you tell us about truly madly baby and tell us about the Dragon’s den experience? Yeah, so that’s quite an interesting part of my journey because I would say that, um, it’s where I learned the most. So I went in and 2005. Okay. So again, quite a long time ago just had my son, he was five months old and I started my business.
Cause that’s kind of what you do, isn’t it, when she would be that young. So I went in, I literally applied on the computer night. I thought it was very funny. And then the BBC called me up that same day. So I was like, really? Oh my goodness. And then after two weeks I was actually stood filming in front of the dragon.
So it was really quick turn around. Um, I got investment offer from Theo, for fetus. If any of you guys know him, he was the new dragon at the time. And Peter Jones who most people do know. And Peter Jones was the guy that I shook hands with. And I said yes, to 75,000 pounds for 47% of my business. Okay. So not a massively great deal, but Peter Jen’s on board, but I never did the deal because when the contracts came through, my solicitor said, please don’t sign them.
They’re just not, it’s not a good deal, basically. But didn’t do the deal. But I went on to run the company for three years and being on the television was a huge boost because we got massive exposure. Took on another investor who I knew. And then by year three, we turned over a million pounds. We were in profit.
We had 430 consultants across the UK doing parties. Cute. Huge growth, but actually to quick Damon, because we hadn’t got those foundations in place to manage the amount of demand we’ve got coming in. It was, it was massive. So we needed the next level of investment to actually continue to grow the business.
And the business partner I took on, which was a big mistake, wanted 75% of my business for any more investment. And I, I didn’t have the money to buy her out and I was not going to give her 75% of my business. Cause it was just, it was ridiculous. Um, and she closed me down, so she closed me down and she bought back the company the following day and continued to run it and I lost everything.
Well, I was going to ask you, um, you know, if, if, uh, If you think they were happy with the decision to just shut it down. But, but it’s interesting. I said, I didn’t know that they had bought it back, so they were very strategic about it. It sounds like. Yeah. Wow. That’s, that’s unfortunate. But, um, as you said, a lot of learning experience, um, yeah.
Thanks for sharing that story. Do you, um, yeah. So what was a one, one a little bit I’d like you to elaborate on is what was the business model? So you mentioned you’d go out and you had all these consultants. So what did you do. So it was party plan as we call it in the UK. So, um, I don’t know if you have it in the U S so you probably do I suspect, but it’s also known as, um, network marketing.
So you have people going out and selling the product and then they’d recruit other people to also sell the products. So you build a network of. It was predominantly women who were out running parties, selling baby products in women’s houses. So there’s some if thing, because we love to buy in our own home, it was social.
We can have our babies with us and it just took off. It was, it was, it was huge. Um, and. I think actually we would have gone even further and gone global. We had inquiries from America, Australia, and Europe to actually take the model into those countries. So if we’ve carried on, I think it would have been amazing.
That’s interesting. Um, you know, it’s, it seems like that, um, obviously in circumstances where there’s a loss. Um, it’s not fun to be in at the Inn at that moment, but it seems like when you look back, those are always the times where, where you learn the most and you’re able to apply those to future growth.
It sounds like you’ve done that. Um, because let, let’s kinda talk about some of the exciting things where you know you, so you’ve got your book underneath you. Uh, you went and did a TEDx talk. So you got that nice credential. So why don’t you tell us about, you know, how did, how did you get. On schedule to be a TEDx speaker.
What was the experience like and has that contributed to, um, future, uh, additional exposure since speaking. Yeah, that’s a great question. So I was actually speaking at an event in July last year in Brighton, which is on our South coast, in the UK, by the sea. And, um, it was a very small conference. Really.
There was about 60 people there, but one of the guys, there was the curator for TEDx, Brighton, and TEDx brightens the largest TEDx in Europe. So it’s 1500 people. So it’s huge. If you’re going to get a TEDx in the UK, you get Brighton, you know, this guy saw me speak and it was really lovely because at the end in a couple of open mic sessions, he, they said, Oh, you know, what’s your favorite part of the day?
And he stood up and said that my talk had been one of his favorites. Which was just awesome. I then obviously connected with him in a really subtle and calm way, Damon, knowing who he was. Um, and we just networked really very gently. And then I got a message, which said, and I was, I had a ticket to go to watch TEDx Brighton and hide a message, which said, I’m giving you seven days.
Notice are you in, because he’d had somebody dropped out who was supposed to be speaking. And he had said he could only think of one person that he wanted to ask. And this is, this is a true story and I’m truly humbled and flattered. So within seven days I got myself ready and then went and stood on the TEDx.
Stage in Brighton in front of 1500 people and did my thing. So yeah, it was a few, it was huge for me. It was massive from the second part of your question, the impacts of there already I’ve had two paid speaking bookings because they were actually in the audience and watched me, which was amazing. But the video hasn’t yet gone live on Ted’s site.
It’s due to go and live and probably any day in the next couple of weeks. So I’m kind of watching every day. And I think at that point, I’m hoping that’s when I may see more impact from them actually seeing my whole talk on, on official TEDx video. So, yeah, that’s awesome because yeah, that’s, that’s one of those things that’s going to provide value for a long time because you know, TEDx talks on YouTube or wherever they, you know, people watch them.
They’re there forever. Yeah, it’s huge. Isn’t it? And I think as well, my, my story, which is obviously a little bit more than what I’ve mentioned to you was kind of the message of, um, I’m built from every mistake I make. And actually we always have a choice. We always have a choice, no matter what happens to us.
And that was the theme running through my talk to hopefully then inspire the listeners. Yeah. I, I think, uh, I agree with that. And I’ve talked to other people about that, where we are all given different circumstances and some of us. Certainly have better or worse circumstances. But the one thing that we all have is the opportunity to choose how we react to those circumstances and if we want to overcome them.
So that’s a good story. Now there. Um, so your book live at Lovett, sell it. You did the TEDx talk. Between. Um, so you mentioned TEDx was a 1500 person audience. How big of a jump was it from? You know, the audience size you had been at the largest audience size you had been in prior to TEDx, was this, you know, a small room to 1500 people, or were you comfortable with that jump?
I hadn’t done it for a long time, but if you imagine after dragon stand, I did quite a lot of speaking and that was kind of almost, I was just thrown into it. People just wanted to hear my, my Dragon’s den story. So I was quite, um, a naive kind of, um, speaker, just literally standing up telling my Dragon’s den story in the old days.
And so I did have an audience of probably as large as 500 at one of those events. So that was quite interesting, but it had been such a long time since I’ve done big speaking gigs. So I’d done a few networking events, you know, 30 people, 60 people. Um, but actually this was really, really huge for me actually, to jump to in, you know, having not done it for such a long time.
But the one thing that was interesting was the spotlights on the stage, men that I couldn’t see the audience. And that’s quite an interesting dynamic because I could hear them and they were amazing and they were very supportive and they were denied and laughed at the right times, which is great, but I couldn’t see them.
And so there was nothing really for me to
put me off, there was not racist staring at me from that respect. And then ask if that helped or hurt your ear. You’re speaking confidence. I think, I think it, it helps in a way, but actually, yeah, I like to engage with the audience. So just be aware that I was always moving around the room with my presentation, you know, my eye contact and everything.
Cause they could still see me. So I couldn’t have just stayed into like one place. So actually the skill of speaking is quite interesting, the elements that go with it. So I was having to talk to a room of faceless people, but I could hear them. And that actually, I think was very powerful that you could hear they’re there, you know, and they’re laughing and stuff, and that made them very real.
So that was very interesting experience. Yeah. That is interesting. Well, Joel, I appreciate your time before we go. Why don’t you give our listeners a, you know, whatever contact information should you want to put out there? Your website, social media. Yeah, I think actually the best thing to say to the audiences.
Well thank you for listening to me, obviously, but if you look up live it, love it, sell it. You will find everything to do with me. My book, my website, and all of my social media now is along that tag. I love it. Now Jules last thing. We surprise our guests with a random question generator. Um, your question, hopefully this applies to you.
Do you like to sing out loud or when no one else is around. Definitely out loud.
Yeah. Sometimes we get some, really some really easy ones. Sometimes we get some really deep bloods. Sometimes it gets a funny one. So it seems like they all fit. Um, well, what’s been interesting about doing those random questions is that it always seems like. They fit the guest there. They’re always a good question for the guests.
I think, I think the other thing to mention is that probably the people listening might not be glad on singing out loud, Damon. Well, do you want to sing us out?
Joel is I appreciate your time. You’ve been a pleasure. Thank you. It’s been lovely. Thanks for having me.