Today’s guest is the Founder of Stewardship, an Inc 5000 Fastest Growing Company in America, and is the Author of the best selling book, “The Problem Isn’t Their Paycheck: How to Attract Top Talent and Build a Thriving Company Culture.”

Please welcome Grant Botma.

Episode highlights:

  • 0:36 – Attract Top Client
  • 2:11 – Grant Botma’s Background
  • 6:44 – Documentation and that process Development
  • 9:06 – Course
  • 10:06 – Balancing many things

Learn more about this guest:

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Podcast Episode Transcripts:

Disclaimer: Transcripts were generated automatically and may contain inaccuracies and errors.

Grant Botma. Thanks for joining. How are you doing? I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on Damon. I’m excited about this. Yeah. There’s a lot of things we can talk about, um, based off your intro and, you know, before we hit record, I asked you offline. I think it’s worth revisiting. So in your intro, we talk about how you have an inc 5,000 fastest growing company, um, as the founder of stewardship. 

But then we also talk about, um, you know, how to attract top clients and build a company culture. So how do we get from a company like stewardship that does mortgages and investments over to, um, Writing a book about company culture. Yeah. It’s kind of a funny story and happened on accident. Uh, but yeah, we we’ve, uh, had some success that’s the team at stewardship has done really well and, and, and finding needs and filling them and serving our community through financial services. 

And when you start winning awards and, and getting this attention, uh, people just started asking me to speak at different events. And, um, over a period of time, my personal assistant looked at my calendar and she’s like, Hey, Grant, we can’t, we can’t travel this much and go speak at all these events. Um, you’re not going to get as much done. 

And I said, well, I still want to do it because I like the impact that I’m making. Yeah. Like the relationships I’m building and I enjoy it. She’s like, well, have you ever. I heard of this thing called an online course. And I’m like, no, I’ve never heard of that before. Uh, and then I looked into it. So I created an online course and it was kind of cool because it allowed me to do what I was doing on stage for an hour or so, and, and really dive deep and give people all, all the resources and things that I do in my company culture, because that’s really where our success comes from. 

It’s our team. Uh, and then. Uh, somebody who had taken the course who had worked for a publisher and they reached out to me and said, Hey, you should write a book. And I’m like, yeah, no, thanks. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, you don’t understand. You really need to write a book. And I’m like, no. Okay. Uh, so that’s kinda how it all turned into what it turned into. 

So there’s a lot of things that we can dive deeper on based off of that quick background. So why don’t um, well, why don’t I ask you the two questions I ask all guests. Uh, the first question is what are you good at? Which you’ve probably you’ve already touched on, but, but what do you think we’re going to learn from you today? 

And then following that? What are you not so good at? Yeah, I’d say what I’m good at and what I’m not so good at kind of grind against each other. And I think I’ve found that in a lot of people, right? It’s like where, where they’re really, really great, where one of their biggest strengths is also is tied to one of their weaknesses. 

Um, so one of my strengths and something that I think I’m good at is, um, finding a need in, in, in our community finding needs and filling it. And that I think that’s the heart of entrepreneurship. It’s serving people in a unique way by, um, filling, filling their needs. Um, and what I’m not so good at is, uh, um, and I’m arrogant. 

And I think, I think my way is the best way, and I think I can, I can fill all the needs and fix all the things, um, and that can get me in trouble sometimes. So. My hope is to teach everybody who’s listening a kind of the art behind finding needs and filling it and, and how you can, um, manage more than one entity or company and kind of merge them together to make something cool. 

That’s one of the topics I want to talk about is balancing multiple things. So I’m glad that you brought that up and you’re right. It’s funny. You’re talking about talents and vulnerabilities and weaknesses grind against each other. Um, just, just our last guest. Um, just yesterday. Said kind of the same thing. 

She she’s this leader of, uh, she consults, you know, super mega brands and has, does seven, eight figures. And her answer was I suck at the small details. And so you would think that, you know, leaders of mega companies would have everything dialed in and it’s kind of become a recurring thing theme where a lot of the guests I’ve had great success and then they have just something really. 

Uh, you know, that really surprising that you think would be pretty cut and dry that they say, Nope, that’s, um, it’s not what I can pull off. And I think what, um, many of the successful people that I’ve come to know are able to bring people along in their life, build a team of people, um, or put in systems and processes to help them in those weaknesses, you know, to try and curb them or, uh, to try to. 

Make them step out in a way that allows them to still move in the right direction. So, yeah, I have my wife who keeps me humble. I have a as partners and a team of people who, uh, have no problem grabbing me by the collar and saying, Hey, You know, you’re going in the wrong direction here. Let’s go this way. 

So, yeah. Yeah. So how did, how do you find a need and fill it? Do you kind of, do you have a process where you kind of identify things or is it just something that comes floating along and you see the shiny object? You know, I, I think, uh, for me it comes naturally. Uh, I am like, one of those guys always wants to try to fix it. 

You know, if there’s a problem, I go attack it and I try to figure it out and fix it. Um, and an example of that is I also own a software company and in the financial services world, software and technology is not where it needs to be. It’s not nearly on par to where it is in other industries. And I was so frustrated with, with the ability to find a solution for what I was looking for. 

I knew the technology existed. So again, I was arrogant enough to think that I could do it and. Got a team of developers and we created a software and it ended up being awesome and a game changer for my business. And, uh, then the next thing, you know, people are asking for it. So I started selling it. And so that, that came natural to me because there was this problem, there’s this issue. 

And I just wanted to go solve it and fix it. But for other people who, maybe it doesn’t come natural to it’s the problems are everywhere. Um, people have frustrations or pain points all over the place. Um, we are not in a world. That’s perfect. Our lives are, are never perfect. Our days never go perfectly. So it’s finding those issues, those problems that are repeated, things that are happening all the time. 

Yeah. Maybe day in and day out, week in and week out, month in and month out. Those are the problems. Those are the things that you want to try and solve, um, because it’ll make a bigger impact on, on real people’s lives. Yeah. Even, even at a smaller level, I like how you put that because my SEO agency, where we did side, we need to build processes is exactly, as you said, are we going to have to do this more than once? 

And if the answer’s yes, then, then, then we dive in and start documenting it out and save it. And, you know, I imagine you have the same opinion, but sometimes that documentation and that process development. Process process development process that, that sucks going through that sucks. But, uh, but longterm, it saves you so much time and headache once you do it. 

Oh yeah. I mean the solving problems, sometimes isn’t fun or easy. It really isn’t. Um, but what is awesome is when it’s over and you can see that it genuinely is making an impact on someone’s life, you know, like when you see that someone’s life is changing. That that, uh, uh, real impact is being made on a real person as a result of, you know, going through that sucky process. 

Um, it’s beautiful. It’s a wonderful thing. You seem very passionate about that topic. Is there a, like a standout example of impact that you’ve witnessed that just always comes top of mind? Oh man. Well, it’s, it’s pretty easy and financial services, um, to help them with a mortgage loan, you know, right now interest rates are super low, right? 

So doing a lot of refinances, our company is, and I’m watching people be able to go from a 30 year fixed to a 15 year fixed and. Keep their same payment or even get a lower payment like that, that changes their complete financial picture. Right. Um, giving people a financial plan for the first time and the piece, like they literally walk out of the office with their head held higher and they’re kind of chest out a little bit. 

Like there’s just confidence even in their continents and the way that they’re walking. It’s beautiful. Um, but even in, in the book that I wrote, like it was so unexpected, the feedback that I got from that, but. People sharing their stories of how it impacted them as a manager or a leader, and the way that they’re implementing some of the simple processes in there. 

And, and, and I, I really believe that employment, that when you have a team of people is a huge way to make an impact on people, share the products and services that we offer. That’s finding a need filling it. We can really make an impact on people there, but man, through employment, That’s a really big impact on a lot of people who have read the book or are coming to realize that, recognize that and take a lot of pride in the fact that man, I can make an impact on my team and their lives through not just the income that they get. 

Uh, but, but by giving them an awesome place to work. Yeah. How long did the book take you to write? Were you able to largely, um, repurpose your course? And then once the book was published, did you have to act, what did you do to actively promote it? Did you do anything specifically? Yeah. Uh, I’m a little bit different in that. 

I had a lot of things written down because of the course. So the course is 12 modules, 60 hours of video, you know, so it’s basically taking one of those modules plus some other stuff and putting it in to the book and it was pretty easy. Um, and a lot of fun. And I’d say it took me about six months total to put it together and, uh, to promote it. 

The publisher did all of that. There’s, they’re just a team of people through each stage of the process. And once the book was finalized and finished, um, they provide different things and assets and, um, basically do a quote unquote virtual tour where I’m, you know, being a guest on different podcasts and doing different things. 

And. But they did it all for me. So I just, I just kind of stayed in my lane and did what they said. Yeah. Yeah. So you have a lot of things going on, as you mentioned, how do you balance so many things and was this something, was that skillset something you always had or did you have a learning curve to balance all this. 

Um, I think I’m always learning, right? And that’s maybe a theme of your podcast is just to always be learning, I would assume. And, and, um, I’m never going to arrive at like I’m the best and most perfect person at balancing things. Um, but I would say, say that I have a propensity to, um, be efficient. Uh, to, to do things, a lot of things in a short amount of time, and that’s helpful. 

I think that starts with having the right tools in place, whether it be technology or systems or processes, um, being very, very intentional with my schedule. I’m a huge fan of Michael Hyatt and follow a lot of his teachings with his ideal week. And, um, W, you know, making sure I’m planning out things in that way. 

Um, but really the best way to get a lot of things done is, uh, with a great team of people. Um, the reason why stewardship has the success that we’ve had is because of other people on the team, they’re really, really great workers and we’re all on a mission together pursuing this purpose, uh, to try to make an impact on our community. 

And, and it’s a lot of fun. Why don’t we talk about that a little bit, because you speak highly of your team. How do you source your talent and you know, what check and balances do you have to ensure that your own company culture stays intact by hiring the right people? Yeah. Um, I focus in the hiring process on culture fit over. 

Anything else? And when I say culture fit for, for us, that means that they align with what I call, uh, our unified purpose more than anything else. So the concept that I teach in the book is that the problem isn’t their paycheck means that it’s not money that attracts top talent. And that’s not something that. 

I have just experienced in my own business, but that’s proven over and over and over again in study. After study, after study, um, people will take a pay cut to go work for an awesome company bottom line, and people want to go do work that matters. Uh, people want to not just come to work in clock in and clock out. 

They want to, uh, make an impact on real people and they want to do it together. In a community of people. So I call that have having a unified purpose. So the unified purpose that stewardship is to love people through finances. And that sounds weird and it kind of stands out because I’m using the word love and the financial world, which is kind of different, but in order to love people, well, you have to sacrifice, you have to give of yourself. 

You have to put my needs aside to go serve. And meet the needs of the customer every single time. And we have temptations every day, day in and day out to try and get a bigger commission or put somebody maybe in not the best situation possible, but that’s not what we’re about. And as a team, we sacrifice together to give the absolute best to our customers. 

And. When you’re trying to find a people that are going to fit with that. That’s, that’s all I really care about. I don’t care if they have any experience. Um, as a matter of fact, two of my employees, one used to be a grocery store clerk and the other used to be, um, uh, a counselor at university of Phoenix, you know, and now they’re two of the highest producing people in their field, in the country. 

They quite literally are top 1% producers and that’s because they had that heart. Of wanting to serve people before themselves. And they aligned with our unified purpose of loving people through finances. So that’s, that’s where it starts. How do you identify that? Like the grocery store employee, how does that, uh, potential working relationship come into the picture and then how do you identify? 

Yeah, this, this makes sense. Let’s proceed. Well, um, I think it happens in two different ways. One is when you have a great company culture, um, it’s not a secret, uh, your employees start telling anybody and everybody about where they work cause they love where they work. When you have a great company culture, your. 

And you’re focused on culture and you’re focused on growth. You’re going to win awards and that becomes public as well. So then your community comes to know you as this great place, and everybody wants to come work for you. Right? So the ability of, of people who are the ability to go get great talent, who are aligned with that purpose is easier when your purpose is public. 

Does that make sense? So, so people are currently working, doing a thing and maybe even getting paid more where they’re currently working, but they’re just, they they’d rather come be a part of a team that’s pursuing this really cool purpose together. Right. One way of, of having that, that happened. But during the process to make sure that they genuinely aligned with it, I have a very, very distinct, uh, hiring process that, um, You know, starts with me, not when I review the resume, the first thing I’m going to do is, is stock them on social media. 

I don’t want to see a whole lot of, of selfies. Right? I want to see a whole bunch of other people taking pictures of them. Tagging them in posts where other people are thanking them and saying how awesome they are or how helpful they are. I want to see them volunteering and other philanthropic endeavors. 

I’m looking for selflessness, a habit of that in their life. Um, and then the next step is I do a video interview. Um, and I just asked them to record a video and tell them why they think that that. They would be a good fit here. And what I’m looking for them to respond with is how they align with that unified purpose of loving people. 

Well, and the smart ones know our unified purpose, and they mentioned that in the video, but really I’m not looking for something polished in the video. As a matter of fact, if I see somebody who’s like super polished in the video and it’s like a really, really well done video, um, that actually is a red flag to me. 

I want someone who’s awkward. I want someone who isn’t necessarily super comfortable with the camera on them, because that’s the type of person who likes to be sometimes behind the scenes, right. Who likes to serve, you know, who doesn’t always have to be a look at me first type person. Um, So I got the video interview. 

I do a, uh, an email questionnaire portion of it. And then I always do to what’s called an emotional intelligence test. I’m a huge fan of the book, emotional intelligence, 2.0 They have this test that you can take that measures a one’s emotional intelligence, which is essentially. Their self awareness and their awareness of others. 

It’s not a personality test. It doesn’t type you in any way, shape or form. It just basically says how aware of you, how aware are you of yourself and how aware are of are you of others? And if you want to serve others and we’re going to love people through finances, you definitely need to be aware of others and aware of yourself to make sure that that can happen well. 

So those are just a few of the steps that I, that I take through the hiring process to help find that that person who aligns with our purpose. So now the listeners have all the cheat codes to get a job at stewardship. Um, so I have a question about your opinion on it. So I agree that people are willing to take a pay cut, to work in an environment that they’re appreciated within more. 

Um, so I don’t think this question. Applies directly to your company culture, but I’d be curious of your opinion on where that breaking point occurs for other people in other businesses or other industries. So, you know, there’s, there’s always the hungry entrepreneur or the employee that’s earlier, early in their career and they want to climb that ladder. 

And so of course they want to go from 30 to 50 to 80, to a hundred thousand until they actually start getting there. Then at some point it seems like there’s a breaking point where they say, Hey, this pursuit of more dollars. Isn’t fulfilling me. Do you have any input on, you know, what that brand cake breaking point happens or have you observed anything that, you know, within the scope of that? 

Yeah. So in the book, the framework that I teach is that money is important. It is a motivator, but it’s only the fourth, most motivating thing. And there are three things that are more motivating than that. We talked about. Having a purpose that you get to pursue with a community. That’s the number one, most motivating thing, but the other two things are freedom or autonomy and affirmation or mastery. 

And this is not something again that I just discovered on my own. This was study after study, after study, after study from. All over the place in various different societies and various different situations where these things are coming to the top, as it pertains to motivation or how people are wired. 

And if you really think about it, that person who is pursuing those raises what they are really, why are they pursuing that money? Why do they want it? Well, they either want that money because, because they want more freedom. They want to go on vacation or they want to have more control over their schedule or whatever else that is. 

They want to retire earlier or something like that. Or, or maybe they’re going after that money because they want more affirmation. They want her to drive a nicer car or a bigger house that people could say, look at me, or maybe they are wanting that money because they are pursuing a purpose, which is they want to provide for their family, or they want to donate more money to a philanthropic endeavor. 

Really, no matter how you break it down, that pursuit of money in some way, shape or form is going to point to those other three motivating factors. Affirmation. Freedom and a unified purpose. So the wise, um, leaders, managers, and business owners. Yeah. They, they provide money to their team, but they’re also intentionally weaving those three things into the culture and into the experience that the employee has on a daily basis. 

Yeah. Where did this whole journey began? How did you become an entrepreneur? Wow. Okay. Um, you know, Uh, as I was going through college, I was working as a mortgage loan originator. So I was 19 years old. Trying to close the loans. And I have a really baby face. I looked like I was about 12 and that was like back before, like, you know, people could attach things in emails because the internet was different than so you’d have to go to people’s houses just to get loan applications signed. 

And I would knock on the door and they would see my face. And they look behind you, like when your dad come, you know? So, uh, I had kind of been in, in that role and in the sales role of personal finances, Very much close to a self employed experience. Um, but when I was going through college, I was seeing and experiencing like all this turmoil in the financial world, I was watching my coworkers, put people in really poor mortgages, just so they could get. 

A few hundred bucks, extra of commission or qualify for this trip to Puerto Rico or whatever. I’m like, this is just plain wrong, man. And after a while you would see those customers try to come back and they would be in ruin that because they were not in the best mortgage product or financial product, they were now getting a divorce and, or they had crappy relationships with their kids or they’re in. 

Debt over their heads and they just got poor guidance and I’m like, man, I want to create a company where that’s not going to happen. Whether people know it or not, they’re going to get genuinely what’s best for them. And so I kind of created this business plan and in college being very passionate about that particular thing, knowing and understanding that money is a big deal yet our society doesn’t set people up to win with it. 

You know, there’s so much that we have to know and understand, but we aren’t taught that and we aren’t taught it well, um, So I created this big old business plan and I showed it to my, my boss at the time. He was like, wow, grant, this is really cool. But if I do this, I won’t make any money, so I can’t do it. 

Um, so again, in my pride and arrogance, I said, okay, well, I’m going to do it, you know? And that’s kinda how it started. And do they, do they look back in regret now, but by not jumping on it with you? Oh man, it’s kinda funny. Um, so that the owner of that mortgage company is still a friend of mine and he’s still in the mortgage business. 

Um, we’re, we’re in two very different places now. He’s still originally yeah. Mortgage loans. And I don’t even remember the last time I met with a customer, I’m still just managing our team and we’re trying to grow in a different area. So when we get together for lunch, maybe once a year and still hang out, it’s a very different lifestyles, but I still cheer him on. 

He still cheers me on. But what happened was when I was starting the mortgage company, the writing was on the wall. That the recession was coming and that the, um, the bubble was gonna burst if you will. And as that happened, uh, he actually had to shut his mortgage company down and a whole bunch of the employees called me up and they’re like, Hey, I hear you have more come work for you. 

Um, and I’m like, yes, but this is how we treat customers. And this is how we do commission. And he’s like, Oh, that’s neat. Cool. I’ll talk to you later, you know, so, um, because I was putting a cap on income, they weren’t too excited about that, so, yeah. Yeah. Uh, I got a question on, on, on that note about, um, recession. 

I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it, but do you think w the, the mortgage industry, um, or, or the housing market, are we close to something like that? Doesn’t have to be as large of a scale, but as something around the corner, No, I don’t think we are. There’s a, I can’t, I don’t have a, or I can see, obviously if I, if I, if I did, I’d be, uh, even more wealthy than I am now. 

You know, if you know exactly what’s going to be happening, uh, but what we can see is we can have a pretty educated guess on what’s going to be happening within the next six to 12 months. But outside of that, it’s really hard for me to understand and really what we can measure in that six to 12 month period is supply and demand. 

Right? And at least right now, um, the demand still heavily outweighs the supply of real estate and most in most markets. And, um, as a result, we aren’t necessarily going to be in a place where. No inventory for homes goes all over the place and people are leaving them. And there’s lots of foreclosures and things on top of that from the financial side of how it’s tied to it, the financial, the mortgages that are being done right now are very different than the mortgages that were being done before. 

In most cases you do have to have some skin in the game. You still have to have good credit. Um, the way that they validate and verify income is very different than they did before. So. I would say that most of these people that are getting mortgages deserve them and they should be getting the mortgages. 

And because they’ve earned it, they have good income, they have good assets, they have good credit. So the credit worthiness of most buyers is better than it was before. So are we headed for another recession? Um, you know, I don’t have a crystal ball. I can’t say yes or no, but I can say that all the signs are pointing to something very positive, continuing for at least the next six to 12 months. 

Yeah. You had mentioned a moment ago about how there’s so many things that we need to learn about money, but we’re just not taught that in society. And, and, and I agree, and I, I briefly talked about this with other guests too, but, um, you know, one really good example is, um, I was looking to hire a new content writer for my agency, but year two, three years ago. 

And, um, they, they were kind of fresh out of college. And I was talking to them and they were talking about, we were negotiating pay and pay frequency and pay terms and their response to one of my questions was, well, I don’t have a checking account. And how many hours a week is full time? Um, It just like blew my mind. 

Not, not in like a bad way for them, because like, that was a genuine question and I’m glad they asked, but I was really surprised that people can come this far in life nowadays. And to me, those are some basic things, but more and more I’m realizing that that’s not so much as common knowledge as I thought it would have been. 

Yeah. And that’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about. Um, not only do they not have common knowledge of different types of accounts or what accounts are important, uh, but they don’t have any idea how to make a plan. It’s just, for some reason, the word budget is like this evil word that people don’t want to ever. 

Do or attack or figure out. And everybody just kinda is drifting somewhere with their finances. The money comes in and then they spend however, and maybe save however, but most people are paycheck to paycheck. Um, but the type of people that win are, have, have a plan. So they know exactly how many dollars are coming in and they have a plan for every single one of those dollars, um, including, but not limited to saving and, and, and giving. 

And then figuring out how to live on that on the rest. And that that’s a big deal. Have you ever read the book three cups? I haven’t, um, it’s, it’s like a kid’s book. Um, my investment guy gifted it to me when our, one of my first son was born. And, um, it’s a really cool book cause it’s a short one, but the gist of the book is that this kid, when he’s eight or nine years old, his parents. 

Give him his birthday present and he opens it up and it’s three coffee cups out of the cupboard. And he’s like, I recognize these from the cover. Like, why are you giving me coffee cups? And, um, the parents say, well, they’re going to take you on journeys that you, that you won’t expect. And so one, one cup is for spending. 

One is for savings and one is for charity. And so they walk them through. You know, splitting any money he gets into these cups. And then the journeys he goes on as he gets older is, you know, from his savings, he buys a car. And so now he can go on those journeys and from his charity cup, he, you know, builds relationships and has these experiences and it goes on those journeys. 

So it’s a really cool book. I recommended a couple of times and it’s just short and sweet and it’s, um, it’s, I think it teaches a really valuable lesson in a really condensed way. I love that. I love that so much. It’s okay. It resonates very well with what my wife and I teach. If we’re ever asked to be on stage. 

It’s one of the most watched videos we have on our stewardship YouTube channel is this video I did where this is what I teach my kids about money and it’s that exact thing we teach our kids to give first, save second, then, then live on the rest. And that’s a very, very important concept. I am definitely going to get that book. 

I love that. Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. Um, so you’ve had all these, these different experiences and successes and you continually balance multiple successful things. Um, but I’m willing to bet that you’ve had some failures along the way. Oh, Damon, I’ve had more failures than I could count. It’s. Uh it’s and, and I know that there’s more failures ahead of me, you know? 

Um, uh, I’m not perfect. I make all kinds of mistakes and have made many mistakes along the journey. Was there any of those mistakes that you’ve learned from that you’d be willing to share? Oh man. Uh, how much time do we have? Yeah. Um, I would say, um, one of the biggest mistakes I’ve made, ever made is not being slightly overstaffed and you know what? 

I, I made this mistake twice. I’m sorry to cut you off. I’m there right now. I need I’m in hiring mode right now. Here’s what happens, you know, we, we, we grow right. And when we’re doing anything and everything we can to grow, we hire awesome companies like yours, and we get help with SEO. And we do all these different things with marketing and we’re working on all these endeavors and then, and then they actually work. 

And then we’re getting all this business and it’s like, Holy crap, we’re getting more business than we can handle. And then what that does is it puts an crazy amount of stress on the entire team hand on leadership. And then you’re put in a situation where you have to hire out of necessity and that prevents you from being able to hire the right fit because you can’t take as much time. 

Yeah. And whenever you have to hire somebody, whenever there’s stress involved, it is rough. It is rough. And then it dramatically negatively impacts your culture when everybody is overworked for an extended period of time. And people say like, yeah, just be so be slightly understaffed because staff is a high, you know, the biggest part of the overhead. 

No way, always slightly overstaffed. Yeah. No, I agree. Unfortunately, um, I’m like you have, have had that forethought. So I’m not, I’m in Daymond pain, not in normal world pain. Like I know that’s normal world pain is coming and that is stressing me out. And so I’m trying to get a get ahead of the curve. 

That’s great. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. I mean, those are our two there. Those that’s one mistake that I had to repeat twice. And actually I go into detail of that, that mistake in the book, but it was, it was rough. It’s actually that journey of being. Uh, not slightly overstaffed is kind kinda what led me into like really diving into being a company culture expert, to being almost like a social scientist and behavior analyst. 

Um, that, that lesson I learned was it was a tough one. It’s a very, very hard time. Um, I definitely and made, made mistakes in different transitions in my business. So when I had to transition out of being. Uh, the, the person that was the customer facing person. Right. I thought I was really, really great at doing the mortgages and I didn’t trust necessarily anybody to do it the exact same way I did. 

And I want them to do it my way. And, um, I had to learn to let go. Right. Uh, I learned the lesson that trust isn’t earned trust is given. I have to give trust to people or hire people that are trustworthy. And if I don’t trust them, it’s a me problem. Uh, because again, I hired them or I’m not giving them the trust. 

Right. So, um, that was, that was definitely, uh, a tough period of time in my life. And I’m in the midst of, of one that’s going to. Be happy. I’m an entering into another season that I know there’s going to be some failures. I don’t know what the failures are yet, but our team is growing to a point where I need to focus more on leadership development. 

So instead of me just being the primary leader, who’s developing all of the employees and growing our company culture and being the primary and focusing on that, I got to have a team of people that are doing it with me. Right. So that we can have. Further extensions of my leadership throughout, throughout, and, uh, that’s, that’s another new phase or journey that I’m moving into and guaranteed. 

If we did another interview a year from now, I have more stories of failures from that. So failures are always happening, man. And, and, uh, yeah. What, uh, I’m sure there’s some listeners that are saying, um, that just makes no sense to overstaff. And so to those people, what do you do with, I don’t know if you’d necessarily have excess time when you’re overstaffed with these employees, but what do you do with them to keep them occupied? 

If your intent intentionally overstaffed. Oh, when you hire somebody, your job isn’t to keep them occupied. When you hire paper people, their job is to pursue your company, mission and purpose. And as long as my team is doing that, I don’t care. Um, I’m not the type of person who’s going to micromanage. Every single thing that they’re doing throughout the day. 

I don’t care if they’ve made a million phone calls or if they’ve watched Netflix all day. I don’t care who at the end of the day, who, who, who had the met the company mission the best, I mean, here’s hyperbole, but let’s say you have somebody who works 365 days a year, 24, seven, but brings in a hundred thousand dollars of revenue. 

But then you have one person who works five minutes for the entire year and then is on vacation the rest of the year. But they bring in $20 million of revenue. Which one do you want? You know, and I think we get lost in that, that sometimes as managers or leaders, I feel like we have to make sure our team is working and making the most of their time. 

And if they’re not taking advantage of me, like, no, that’s, that’s not it at all. Um, I give my team freedom. I trust my team because they’re adults. And what I do in my leadership is trying to point anything and everything that they do to, to meet our mission and love and people through finances. And when we’re slightly overstaffed, it’s a great opportunity for them to come up with new and innovative ways to do that, to help in the endeavor of growing. 

It’s a great opportunity for them to see socially engaged with other people on the team, so that it’s not just a purpose, but it’s a unified purpose where they’re unified with more people because when they’re unified and they’re in a community of people together, There’s this social pressure. If they don’t pursue the purpose and everybody else is now, they stick out like a sore thumb. 

If they’re not working hard or their performance isn’t to the level of everybody else, they stick out like a sore thumb. They don’t want to be the person that’s dragging the team behind. Um, so being slightly understaffed, having a little bit of quote unquote, extra time helps. Create an awesome company culture. 

Well, let’s break that down maybe for a smaller business, because I think where you have a successful company that in, in this is probably the, not the best way to say it, but it has, um, cash flow to be able to afford that padding with new employees. What about, do you have any advice for smaller businesses where maybe they don’t have as much extra cashflow to be able to cover, uh, a new talent that, um, Obviously there’s, there’s basic job requirements. 

And then beyond that, I get where you say it doesn’t matter if they watch Netflix or wherever, because they’ve contributed in the way they need to. And then beyond that they can focus on, you know, company growth and a culture or watch Netflix or whatever. But what about the smaller business that says, I really need to hire a project manager. 

So we can continue to grow, but in doing so that will consume the entirety of any extra cashflow we have. And so we’ll go into the red. Do you have any advice to them where they know it’s a necessity, but just financially, it’s kind of a tight trigger to pull? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I’ll put my financial advisor’s hat on and it actually relates a little bit of what we. 

Previously talked about it. So yeah, I have a plan, right. Too many people are hiring or not hiring, and they’re doing it based on feeling, but you’ve got to put a plan or a budget together for what your biggest overhead in your employees and how you’re going to make that happen and how you’re going to get that paid. 

Um, it starts by not hiring and paying based on what everyone else your competition is paying for. Uh, Damien, everybody who works for me could get paid more if they go to the exact same thing with somebody else. Yeah. All of my team knows that. So, uh, you have to pay what you can afford. And you have to budget and pay everybody what you can afford to ensure that everybody is slightly, so that you’re slightly overstaffed, which means people are going to get paid even maybe less than what they would somewhere else. 

And where you try to add compensation is through things like freedom. Affirmation and mastery and a purpose. You have to give people a sense of freedom. So you put yourself in the shoes of the employees and say, man, what of these experiences makes the employee feel enslaved? And where can I give them? 

Right. How can I, I publicly and privately affirm my team and let them know if they’re doing it right. And let them know when they’re doing something awesome so that they could be attracted and compensated in that way. What resources can I provide for them so that they can have maybe additional freedom or autonomy to either work from home or control some of their schedule or whatever that case may be. 

But adding those three other motivating factors, freedom, affirmation, and unified purpose with some creativity, you can compensate your team in that way to help overcome that. Um, temptation of saying, Oh, I’ve got to run in the red or also that. That temptation of, Oh, I’ve got to pay what everybody else is paying because that’s simply not true. 

Yeah. No, that’s a great answer. And I think that’s a very clear answer. So I appreciate you diving into that. Well grant. Um, I appreciate your time as we get closer to wrapping up, I want to give you the opportunity to put our contact information or, or leave us with any last message you want to talk about. 

Yeah. You know, um, I’m very active on Instagram. So if people want to follow me @GrantBotma, I only posting every day, but I’m doing an Instagram story every day. Whether it be about finances or whether it be about leadership and company culture, or just business in general, sometimes even parenting people can just follow me there. 

Um, my profile is public and engage with me either in the direct messages or in my posts. Um, like I said, I’m pretty active there and. And happy to help, but yeah. And if anybody wants to check out the book, uh, you can buy a, the problem is in their paycheck on Amazon, you can search my name and Amazon and the book will come right up. 

Very cool. And what’s your company website? Uh, my company website is a And then for the online course, it’s There we go. Grant Batman, everybody. Thanks so much. Thanks Damon. 



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Today’s guest is the Founder of Stewardship, an Inc 5000 Fastest Growing Company in America, and is the Author of the best selling book, “The Problem Isn’t Their Paycheck: How to Attract Top Talent and Build a Thriving Company Culture.”

Please welcome Grant Botma.

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