André van Hall: Finding Light from the Dark

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At the peak of his career, Andre van hall’s 40 year career, he was managing hotels and he suddenly lost his eyesight in a matter of weeks yet because of his curiosity, hope and determination. He’s continued to thrive first as director of one of America’s premier private clubs. And now as a successful author and speaker.  

Andre, I’m looking forward to your story. Thanks for joining me. Well, thank you so very much for having me or so I’m truly delighted. So you and I haven’t talked prior to now. And so I’m, this is going to be as much of a, an adventure and a, a learning lesson for me as, as our listeners as well. And so why don’t you give us kind of the abbreviated version of, of what happened and, and then we’ll get into what you’ve done with that opportunity since then.  

Sure. You know, and I don’t know how far back you want me to go, but I worked for 40 years in the hospitality industry and I was born and raised in Argentina and I worked for in hotels in Germany and France. Then I came here to go to hotel school and worked all over the United States in hotels. And in 2011, I went suddenly blind and, uh, over two weeks, uh, I lost my eyesight and then lost my job and had to reinvent myself.  

And I decided to become a motivational speaker and I speak on a change. I thought I would speak on service, but I truly could not get. I don’t know. I didn’t think that talking about service would get me out of bed every morning, but talk about change. It goes, I should have gone through a lot of change in my life and, uh, but, um, I’ve linked it to curiosities.  

He changes my highway. But curiosity is my lane. And, uh, I think that, uh, without a curiosity, you can’t bring change into your life. That is my stick. Yeah. I, you know, some of our listeners will be familiar with, um, you know, I acquired an auto immune disease two years ago and I had to find the opportunity in that much like you did  

So I’m really looking forward to hearing how you’ve been able to take your loss of eyesight and turn it into something positive. Um, what contributed to the loss of eyesight? It’s the, uh, the issues nonarteritic anterior ischemic, optic neuropathy, or Nao N for short and, uh, essentially my optic nerve didn’t get blood.  

And, uh, the opening through which the open the optic nerve goes into your eye from, in my case, it’s very tiny and it constricts the optic nerve. I got low blood pressure and they went on a long bike ride. I didn’t hydrate pearly and I stopped working out at altitude, was drop my blood pressure. They said it was the perfect storm yeah.  

Of the disc at risk, the poor hydration, the low blood pressure. Right. And, uh, so it, it, my, I went into shock. And, uh, then, uh, by the next morning they tried to bring it down with, uh, inject with the intravenous steroids and other treatments. Nothing worked. I had lost my left eyesight, less left eye to the same issue two years before that, but it was misdiagnosed.  

And that they thought it was a yes, tragic ischemic attack or a, uh, mini stroke of the optic nerve. If they had diagnosed properly, maybe we could have done something, taking some aspirin, hydrating, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, well, you haven’t let that stop you. So you still cycle thousands of miles. And I like, um, how you, how we discussed this Pelham, um, is your all around guide and chick magnet?  

Yeah, I believe it, I believe it. So, um, you know, how did your relationship with Palin, did you already have Pelham as a result of, of the issue with your first day? No, when losing my first, I still did everything. I rode my bike. I drove my car and, um, it hadn’t significantly, it affected my squash game a little bit cause of depths of field perception and some other things  

But yeah. So we had had dogs all of our lives and, uh, our last dog had passed away a year before this happened. And we had gotten rid of all of that dog stuff, thinking we were done, we’d want to be empty nesters. And, uh, then I lost my eyesight and I got trained to use a cane and, uh, you know, using a cane was very.  

Practical for me, but you know, I’m the first blind man that I ever met and I had no clue about guide dogs and I’m going like, you know, it’s too much responsibility, too much work, but I learned that we use our canes to find obstacles. And I realized that as I started getting involved with the blind community, that the blind people that had guide dogs were getting fast places faster than I was.  

They use their dogs to avoid ups, to avoid obstacles and dissipate them. Right. And, uh, and so that’s one of the metaphors that I use in my talk. And there’s so many of us go through life, like using a cane, you know, finding the obstacles. Um, so I heard about guide dogs for the blind and there are unbelievable outfit.  

These train, they train these dogs for two years before we get them. And, uh, it cost, uh, nearly a hundred thousand dollars per graduating dog and they give them to us totally free of charge. Wow. So I call him my Lexus and he takes me everywhere with his four-part drive and it’s, um, it’s, it’s an unbelievable thing for the longest time.  

I was like resisting getting a guide dog. Cause I’m really like, my cane takes fear everywhere. I want to go. I don’t have to feed it. It doesn’t poop. So, uh, was it just a pride thing you think at that time it was a pride thing as an obstinance ups in a thing is, you know, it’s funny you used the word pride because in my talk, I specifically talk about this and I say that, uh, in, in, in our Bible study group a few months before we’ve been talking about what is humility and the definition I like the best is the ability to accept, help.  

And I was not a humble man. I did not know how to accept help, and people were reaching out to me and, uh, and I was pushing back thinking, you know, I can do it, I can do it on my own. And, uh, uh, so it took me a while to realize the enormous advantage of getting a guide dog. And now we’ve been together for seven years.  

That’s great. So you’ve taken all this and, and turned it into a positive. And now you have a platform called the curiosity of change. Tell us a little bit about that. So, uh, you know, I just published my book, uh, last week was the launch and the name of the book is the curiosity of change, how to bring light to the dark side of change.  

And that is what my doc is essentially all about is, uh, you know, I, uh, I went, when I was diagnosed, of course I was terrified. I was angry. I was sad. I was going through all of those emotions. And the friend of mine again, the very next day. And, uh, Tommy says Andre, he in Colorado, we’re blessed to have the Colorado center for the blind, one of the few in the country where they teach you how to transition into blindness.  

And those words hit me hard because I had not thought about just transitioning into blindness, but I would sit back and wait for it. Um, so many times when change comes into our lives, We don’t transition into the change and, and, uh, we get angry. We, uh, get, uh, you know, again, all of those siblings. Toxic emotions and rather than going out and confronting it.  

So I, that is what my book is about is, is telling people that change is not our enemy. So my blindness is not the enemy. It happened, it was going to happen. It is how I do it, how I deal with it. How do you face it? That change? And the, and of course it’s a lot of it is also like with my guide dog, isn’t it baking and Soso setting a climate of curiosity, not only around you, but around your employees, around people, you work with your colleagues, your family, and the more curiosity you bring in.  

The easier it is to not only deal with change, but also anticipated or create change and be the, uh, the agent of change. So that is the crux of, of, uh, what I I do. Now. I speak about being curious, allowing your employees to challenge the status quo. So I called myself the curiosity instigator. And so, you know, it’s, uh, my goal is to go to an association, a corporation going through merger and acquisition and, uh, and dilemmas say, look, uh, don’t curse the change and be curious about the tentatives that change has is here.  

It’s facing you. And, uh, It’s great because, uh, after my talks, I just, I dunno how many people just come and give me a big hug and say your message was right on point. I had to hear your message and it was the timing is perfect, that sort of stuff. So it gives me huge, huge joy to go out and, uh, and spread the message  

I bet. You know, that was what I was going to ask you. Next was you, you talked about business environments. So our business owners and entrepreneurs is that who you feel like you can help best with your story. Absolutely. So I am now talking to you, you Vistage groups, which is a much, much smaller groups.  

You know, I speak to association with hundreds of people, the room, but a workshop that I also do with small business owners and entrepreneurs, because so many times, you know, they feel. The the, the, the, the, the response to the, of change within their organization rests entirely on their shoulders. And I tried to demonstrate that, no, you need to set up a culture of change in your, of curiosity, your organization  

So that, uh, that changed, it becomes an easy, rather than the enemy and allow you to, or employees to do, to challenge an SOP and rewrite it, or allow your employees to challenge you and set up a culture where you’re not working against them and they’re not working against you. It is you working together to solving problems and to the anticipating what is coming down the road.  

And I think that can only come from curiosity, but I also think that E keyword is initiative. And so if you’re curious, but you don’t allow initiative, or if you don’t have initiative, then of course you’re not an entrepreneur, right. Or you’re not a department. And so initiative plays a significant role.  

In bringing change about in an organization, because my main concern is, is if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got and that works for centuries, right? So you a saddle maker to the King and your, your successors made awesome saddles. You would continue to be able to put the stamp on your saddle saddle maker to the Kings, but also all of a sudden the horse has scattered comes out and I don’t care how good your saddle Sy.  

If horses are being pushed away by automobiles. Yeah, you’re going to be out of business. And if you’re the best typewriter maker maker in the world, you just come out. So incremental changes and not enough today, you know, and it’s a scary time to be in business with, you know, software doesn’t even come in boxes anymore  

Right? I mean, every time you turn on your iPhone, there’s more updates to your apps. And so everything keeps changing and you have the best calendar for your. IPhone and somebody comes out with a better one. So you’ve got to have this, this entrepreneurial, this, this nimble, there’s a desire to change. So I say in today’s world, if you always do what you always did, you’re out of business.  

Yeah. Yeah. So what’s it like to work with you? Does, does it depend on the group or do you have like a very specific outline that you go through? You know, I, there’s an outline that I have and, uh, the, the, uh, the outline goes about me going blind and, uh, discovering the importance of curiosity and telling my stories.  

And so it’s all about stories for my career where I’ve made mistakes or things that I’ve learned from bad bosses. And, uh, but I talk with the. The principles that their organization were going to be speaking to and find out what is keeping you up at night? What are the changes that are happening in your industry?  

What are the changes you’re trying to bring about? What, what are your, what is your team resisting? And then I tailor my conversation to those specific points. And so, so that it hits hard where the audience are saying, Oh, wow, wait a minute. He’s being to me, you know, this is not a general thing. Uh, because, uh, change is different in every organization that comes in different ways.  

And I also, you know, Warren, before we signed the contract, I warned them and I say, I’m going to challenge your team to challenge you. Are you comfortable with that? And, uh, I’ve had one situation where the person said, no, I’m not. And they said, well, it said that I don’t think I’m your man. Yeah. You know, if you’re not comfortable with that, then my message is going to be the wrong message, because that is what I believe you need to do to let your organization be more nimble and prepared for change.  

So why do you think that one person said no?  

You know, he just said that, uh, it, it, they’re going through so much change that they can’t afford to have the employees right now start to challenge everything that they’re doing and that they just don’t have the time to address it. Uh, my response was, well, if you don’t have time now, I mean, it’s, it’s a.  

You won’t have time later when your competitors surpassing you and I think it was insecurity. I think there’s, you know, it’s funny. Cause I joke, you know, and I said, you know what? His boss backwards. SOP.  

And, uh, so if, if, if you’re not a boss that is comfortable laughing at yourself and that’s, again, it’s a good part of my presentation is talking about how, when I was laying on the gurney at the local hospital, Crying my heart out because I knew I’d be blinded two weeks. And all of a sudden I thought of a funny story and I laughed and the nurse came over and we, you know, swapping jokes and laughing.  

And I say how I realized that the darkness at momentarily dissipated, you know, it’s not that I was seeing any better. My eyesight was deteriorating by the moment, but my outlook had changed even it was momentarily. So I feel that humor plays such a significant role. In dealing with change. You can’t take yourself seriously.  

If you take yourself too seriously. And, uh, then you, you, you can’t bring change about, so human is part of the healing. I don’t care how devastating the change is until you let humor into your life again. And so many times it’s like, we forbid ourselves. From feeling good. We forbid ourselves from, from that laughing and it could be the loss of a loved one or something like that.  

And we feel that the morning requires us. Do go into contracted to ourselves in, in my thing is no challenge that allow yourself to laugh, allow yourself to poke fun at yourself. I mean, so I know a lot of really bad jokes with blind jokes and, uh, so that, you know, it’s, it’s when I go and talk to an audience to say, you know, what, if I got laugh about my sadness for my situation, how can I talk to you about laughing about yours?  

Yeah. Well, do you think so, I mean, you have all this value that you can bring to people that you work with, that you’ve, you’ve learned to can present externally, but is there something internally that’s been really clear that you’ve learned about yourself? No, the word resilience, uh, people keep dying me or you’re so resilient.  

You know, I go out and I ski. I have a guide and a blocker and, uh, I was an avid cyclist. I would do a 5,000 miles a year on my bike race. I commuted to work on my bike and a sweat. I do these big bike rides. Now, as you mentioned earlier, and I do them as fundraisers and, uh, this year, uh, 53 of us raised $220,000 for the homeless.  

Um, so yeah, the resiliency, I, if people think that that a it’s something, then I’m different. And I went to judge because there’s, I need more and more people that have lost their eyesight or as people come and talk to me after I give a talk it’s inside of all of us, we have it. And, uh, and it it’s so important to understand that there’s not something extraordinary.  

It’s not something that I didn’t have to go and dig deep for. It. It, you’ve got to allow yourself to get outside of your comfort zone. You got to allow yourself to do, to push it away. But, um, you know, have you, um, uh, read the book some Perini, what is it called? Unbroken. Not off the top of my head. No. Okay.  

So they made a movie of it and it’s a, you know, world war two. I mean, he was an Olympic runner. And, uh, he was, was out at test flying a plane from San Diego and the plane crashed and he and his crew ended up on a raft that was the longest survivors on a raft. And before over a, I think it was like 60 days.  

A raft and ended up in the little Pacific Island taken prisoner by the Japanese and this Colonel made it a point of torturing some Perini in some believable ways and he survived the war and then eventually goes to meet this guy after the war. And the title of the book is on broken. Right. And that I feel that.  

That kind of resiliency is unbelievable, but, um, sometimes I feel you’ve got to give in and, uh, I, I, Oh, the story of, I grew up in Argentina. And I went to an all boy boarding school and our sports were rugby and soccer. And I was the smartest kid in the class. I was a, truly was a nerd and I saw it. I mean, I really suck.  

So I was brutally and right. Relentlessly bullied and harassed by the, by the boys. And one day with tears in my eyes, I went and I begged my father to change my school. And my father told me and he says, uh, you know, I can’t change your school, but the baggage that makes you who you are today is going to go with you, that new school.  

So the one that needs to change is you. Because otherwise they’re going to pick on you for the exact same reasons. And I didn’t understand that message. I was so angry with my father. It took me literally a long time to understand his message. And one of my regrets in life is that my father passed away shortly after that  

And I never made peace with him about it, but isn’t that a key thing? Like simple Reny it was all about. Not being broken and not changing and standing up for what he believed, but leave that so many times when change comes, I believe that we’re the only ones that can, you know, hold back the entire offensive team.  

And we stand there and middle of the field being run over by them, not realizing we’ve got a whole defensive team behind us and, and, and just desperate to help out. Just if we let them. So, so the message that you asking about, I think the key thing is understand you’re not alone in this world and that there’s so many organizations and people and yourself that have the strength inside, do a help you deal with the change that is coming  

And that resiliency is not a superpower it’s inside of. You just go find it. Yeah. And I think that a common message you said that you’re sharing and the other guests have shared is that those vulnerable moments and what you see as your flaws are often the things that help others relate to you and, and build that connection.  

Amen. Absolutely. And so, you know, yes, it’s difficult. And, uh, are you going to have dark moments and you’re going to want to crawl under, into a dark room and forget about the world? Sure. You know, I mean, a year after I’m blind, I lost my job and it was done in a nasty way. It was ugly. And not sure after that I got cancer and then they did surgery and they thought they got it.  

And then they met metastasized and I was put on an experimental drug and the doctor told me, he says, you know what, before this drug, I would have told you to save your affairs in order. But if this drug works for you, I’m talking about curing you and not extending your life. And now I’m here. You’re cancer free.  

Wow. Um, yeah. Is it scary? You bet. It’s scary. Okay. But, you know, there’s all these people, all these organizations that are out there to help you overcome and, uh, and deal with these situations that, uh, if you just open up your heart, open up your, your, your willingness to let people come out and help you.  

So just like you said, Don’t do it alone. Let other people come in and help you. And you’ll be able to deal with just about anything. Yeah. But help me, help me understand something. So I, I’m kind of able to understand the concept when you mentioned skiing and you said the word blocker. So that makes sense.  

Help me understand the biking process. How did you go about biking? So I ride on a tandem and so a bike for two and a. Friend of mine called me up shortly after diagnosed with lying medicine. He knew what a fanatic cyclist I was. And he’s a 23 time Boston marathon runner. Wow and awesome athlete. And he says, Andre, why don’t you?  

And I do this a hundred mile bike ride on a tandem. And like, absolutely no way. I am a CEO and I have to be in charge of the gears and the brakes. And yes, I went to ring the bell. And the last thing I want to do is be in the. Back of a bike, look at your butts. Are they long? Why do you worry? You won’t even see it, you know?  

And, uh, so, uh, I, I told him, so I felt proud. I stood firm. I know what I want, and I’m not going to be in the back of a tendon. And now I’m sitting on a couch at home, you know, and what is better being the back seat of a tendon. Yeah. And giving up control or sitting on a couch at home, growing fat and lazy.  

And, uh, so are you willing to compromise? Are you, are you willing to give up of yourself a little bit that I talk about difference between judging and assessing and when you’re judging, you’re using your prejudice as in your preconceived ideas about something. And I was judging blindness. I thought all I could do as a blind man and I’m exaggerating, but there’s still bent, sell pencils from a tin cup at the local mall.  

And, but that is what my ignorance about blindness was thought about. Right. But when you start to assess it, you say, what is my full potential as a blind man? And, uh, so what is your potential as a person on a wheelchair? What is your potential as a laid off person? What is your potential as a divorced person?  

As a survivor of cancer? Don’t look at it as the way it used to be. Look at it as what it can be. What is it that you can do if you just do choose to go in a different direction? So riding a tandem for me as being. Enormous, uh, release of energy and, uh, uh, you know, being able to do these drives, but it was difficult.  

You know, when, when Tim came to my house, after I bought the tandem and I got on the bike. I said, come on, let’s go riding. He says, well, wait a minute, wait a minute, tell me you got a lot of gears on this bike. You got this breaks. How are we going to communicating? I’m like, Oh, shut up already. Let’s get writing.  

So we have different management styles. Tim is deliberate. I’m more intuitive in am I willing to give up my management styles so that Tim. Can be in charge of this bicycle. And so many times when change comes into our lives, we’re not willing to give up who we are in the control. And then we alienate the people around us and then we find ourselves alone.  

So it’s less than there. And then, so Tim and I get on the bike, we start riding, we get on the bike path and I go like, Tim, you’re the wrong year. You’re killing me. Right. And he’s, he likes high revolutions, low resistance. And the other way around. So, is he listening to his team or is he going to tell me no, Andre, this is the way I ride the bike.  

Like, if you want to ride with me, you need to adapt to my style. And so many times where we are in charge of something, we believe that we need to show off our capabilities and we don’t listen to our team. So if Tim is not listening to me in five miles, guess what? And so. Learning to communicate and Tim and I eventually, you know, and it’s okay.  

Key for him to challenge me to say, Andrew, let’s drive this year. But he needs to be open for me, challenging him back and saying, Tim, what about that year? And when that communication happens, I think it’s where you start to get the synergistic things happening in a team where you get better results. And Tim and I started to pass out.  

The cyclists were going great until we got to the stupid short class, Dan, and we argued all the way to the top. Right. And there’s always going to be. That dam in your career, your life and your business, just as things are going smoothly, something is going to happen that you’re going to have to change and adapt.  

And just because you’re in that one change is not protected from others, right? So for me, it was loss of eyesight and that loss, losing job and cancer metastasis. So you got to realize that changes is constant. It’s going to go senior to happen and you need to continue to be able to adapt and keep your, your eyes up.  

But, so my transition to the attendant. Was hard, same thing with skiing. Uh, you know, I would much rather be in the trees skiing on my own, but now I have a perfect excuse to not do the bumps anymore. So having a guide, I see a little bit, I can see shapes and outlines and light. Uh, so I put my guide on, uh, Orange vest.  

And then I know if I ski exactly where the orange was, then it’s safe for me to ski there. Right. And the blocker, the job of the blocker is to warn people away, you know, as they see that people are skiing towards us, it’s unbelievable. We’ve got these vests that say blind skier and huge letters guide in huge letters.  

And people still want to ski between us and get close to me. So the blockers job is to warn people away and to keep it safe. Yeah. So do you ever, do you ever, um, you know, you mentioned humor, um, do you ever pull pranks with your condition on, on your, the people that help you or yes. Yes. And I, you know, it is, uh, uh, it is funny because sometimes, you know, I, uh, People ask me and they say, you know, so now that you’re blind to have your other senses develop, then I go and like, yes, my sense of humor, you know, because, you know, it’s, it’s, we, we rely as blind people and yeah.  

Hearing right. We cross streets by listening. Uh, huh. And, uh, you know, and I joke and I see, well, people say, well, what about your hearing? Is it any better? And I’m like, man, it’s not that it’s any better. I rely more on it, but don’t ask my wife if I hear it. Yeah. Hearing and listening are different than,  

yes. Well, beyond the inspiring entrepreneur that went blind, you know, who, who else are you? You know, what else is going on behind all this story? Well, you know, of course I’m a, I’m a father, a proud father. I’m a grandfather, either my husband, uh, and, uh, I, uh, I love to travel. I love, love to cook. And, uh, so, uh, you know, and it’s sometimes I screw up, you know, and, uh, uh, grilling something and I can see it, I guess, either.  

Yeah, but, um, you, you begin to learn to compensate. Uh, so, but I have joy of living. Um, one of the things I like to talk about is, uh, in life, do we moan what we have lost or do we enjoy what we can do? So, yeah. I, I, my hobby was photography and I literally have hundreds, if not thousands of great pictures that I believe I’ve taken over my life and I can see that many more and I can’t do it anymore.  

I had to sell it my photographic year and I was privileged to have rafted the entire grand Canyon. And it’s truly one of the most unbelievable places on earth. And I’ve never experienced places like that again with my eyes. So do I want to go there and cry? I’ve had what I can’t do or do I want to say, you know, but I can’t and still ski.  

Yeah. I have to use a guide and a blocker. But I can be on a bicycle. And, uh, I, uh, I climbed a fourteener that’s fourteener is a 14,000 foot, um, know Colorado. They called 14. And, uh, it was with a lot of people helping me and Pelham my guide dog. And I fall, I fell and I heard myself okay, whatever, but I got to the top.  

And so, so. It’s it’s the ability to not stop yourself and to do things that are a joy, you know, and it’s a, you talked about praying, but. Three years ago when I was doing it right. The Rockies. Um, after you arrive it’s it’s, you know, in a day you might do a 80 miles, a hundred miles with a lot of climbing because it’s in the mountains of Colorado and it’s hot and you’ve done writing and you get your towel and you go to the shower trailer.  

And there, I don’t take my guide dog on the, like on the right. Of course. And I arrived there with my cane, to the shower trailer. It’s like going up the stairs. And, uh, I hear this voice saying, Hey buddy, where are you going? I’m going, I couldn’t take a shower. So when the line is way back here. Okay. So it goes my getting to the back of the line that the guys go like, you know, from where you came over there, that other trailer is a much shorter line.  

Well, I really thank you. So I go to the other tree and I’m like, Hey, is this the end of the line? And then going like, yeah, this is the end of the line, but this is the lady shower.  

And a lady says, Hey, navies. Yeah, this guy is blind. We’ve got curtains in there. Shall we let him shower with us? And then I go to the guys, I guess, backfire thing and hollering, you know, can you laugh at yourself? You know, they pulled a prank on me and it backfired on them and, uh, So have fun. And, uh, so I’m all about, uh, enjoying, having fun  

That’s why the Viva, you know, French, the joy of living and the, um, Don’t don’t crawl under a rock and stop living. So that is what I’m about. If that answers your question. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Well, Andre, it’s been a pleasure. I want to give you an opportunity to tell us more about your book, put out your contact information and just give you the floor for a minute.  

Sure. Thank you so very much for the opportunity and yeah. Thank you. You, you, you, you’re a great interviewer and you meet you’ll make people relax. And, uh, so I I’d love you to share that. Thank you. And so, yeah, my, my I am Andre event hall and my website is Andrevanhall.com. And, uh, my book is the curiosity of change, how to bring light to the dark side of change.  

It’s available on Amazon as it, a printed book, or as a Kindle download. And, um, I do a two and a half, three hour workshop on change, or I have a one hour keynote on change and I’ve traveled all over South America and the United States doing both and having a blast at it. I like what you’ve done, Andre. I, uh, as I mentioned, two years ago, I got an autoimmune disease and I had to find, you know, the way to look at the positive in that.  

And so for me, it was the ability to be forced to have a perfect diet now. And so now I eat very well, so I can relate in some ways. Um, Andre, thanks again. Last question that I leave the guests with is how do you want to be remembered? Know, it’s. I do remember as a great father and husband and, and great family, man.  

And I’ll leave you quickly with it story. The three guys are seeing, how do you want to be remembered? That one says, Oh, that’s a great father and husband. The other one says, wow, that’s a great business man and community, man, whatever he says, I want to remember because people came to my funeral, say. Oh, well, he’s alive.  

He’s moving. Yeah, I like that. That’s fair enough. Andre van hall, AndreVanhall.com. Thank you so much. Thank you. I enjoyed this.